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Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

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Michel Dierick

Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

Hi everone,



When I made my landing sunday, I noticed I could not steer my Kitfox either left or right and was unable to vacate the runway.



So, I stopped the engine, looked behind and saw the front bolt of the tailwheelspring had broken. Of course, the rudder rested on the tailwheel, causing some very little damage there.



I was horrified when I made a closer inspection with my camera. 

The picture showed that not only the bolt was broken but a piece of the tubing was also broken off.



I have no idea how this tube was exactly, so can anybody send me some good clear pictures of this tail section (before covering) so that I can see how the fuselage should be normally ?



Many thanks in advance.

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tailwheel bolt...hole

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Flying, yes, but fly safely

Michel "TheDailyFly"

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Michel Dierick [michel.dierick(at)skynet.be]

 So, I stopped the engine, looked behind and saw the front bolt of the

 tailwheelspring had broken.


	


Wow! That's really strange, Michel! I can't imagine how that bolt could break. Was it pulled through? Sheared? How about the bracket and the two bolts that hold the spring in place? Do you think it happened by an up-down force or by a side force?

Sorry, I can't help you with the inside view, I didn't built my aircraft myself, I am just puzzled but the breaking of that bolt. I didn't think it was possible under normal circumstances. But then ... I still have lot to learn.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

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Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

looks like it has been repaired before? 

Rusty too ? 



whats up with that ? 



Does not look too healthy .

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

On Sep 26, 2007, at 2:48 AM, dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   looks like it has been repaired before?

 Rusty too ?


	


... Okay, when I read Michel's email yesterday night, it was through 

my ISP web interface and I didn't see the photos (plain-text-only 

interface). Today, Dave's answer made me think there was some photos 

attached. I went to the forum.matronics.com and saw them. Yes, there is 

a bit of rust there but ... it brought a question to my mind.

My Kitfox model 3 was delivered and built with one spring leaf that 

lasted about 950 landings before breaking. I have now a new main leaf 

and a 'helper.' I read that most people (and John sells) a three-leafs 

set. I see that it is what Michel has. Then I wonder. If the plane is 

designed for one leaf and it is later changed to three ... is it wise? 

I mean, three leaves doesn't reduce the load on the tail when landing 

or taxiing on rough surface. If it prevents the spring to break, 

doesn't it then invite rupture to happen somewhere else? Just 

wondering.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Michel Dierick

Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

Michel,



You could have a point there.

A other piece I want to change is the tail wheel self. This is for the moment one of plain rubber/plastic, anyhow, very hard and absolutely not chock-absorbing at all.  I already decided to change this in a air-chamber like the one on my glider, but this is only a minor problem now.



I'm afraid I will have to open the rear fuselage for the repair.

That's why I'd like to have some pictures of the tail section before covering.



Off-topic

I'm in Gent next week, I'll send you the pictures of the "Rue des deux ponts - tweebruggenstraat"

_________________
Flying, yes, but fly safely

Michel "TheDailyFly"

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

It seems to me that it would depend on the relative strength of the  

three leaves versus the one-, or two-leaf spring that it is  

replacing. When I take my plane with its three-leaf spring out of the  

hangar, it goes over a bumpy area and the tail bounces up and down a  

bit, and I can see the leaves flexing, so I know the spring action is  

taking place and not just remaining stiff and transmitting that  

energy straight up into the tail.

I also got to thinking about how much weight is back there. Mine  

weighed 43 pounds empty at the weigh-in, but the plane never flies  

empty, so fuel and pilot weight have to be

considered when you think about how much weight the spring has to  

support. I can easily lift my tail when the tanks (26 US gallons) are  

low, but it becomes a chore when they are full.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/400+ hrs

On Sep 26, 2007, at 2:01 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Sep 26, 2007, at 2:48 AM, dave wrote:

> looks like it has been repaired before?

> Rusty too ?

 .... Okay, when I read Michel's email yesterday night, it was  

 through my ISP web interface and I didn't see the photos (plain- 

 text-only interface). Today, Dave's answer made me think there was  

 some photos attached. I went to the forum.matronics.com and saw  

 them. Yes, there is a bit of rust there but ... it brought a  

 question to my mind.

 My Kitfox model 3 was delivered and built with one spring leaf that  

 lasted about 950 landings before breaking. I have now a new main  

 leaf and a 'helper.' I read that most people (and John sells) a  

 three-leafs set. I see that it is what Michel has. Then I wonder.  

 If the plane is designed for one leaf and it is later changed to  

 three ... is it wise? I mean, three leaves doesn't reduce the load  

 on the tail when landing or taxiing on rough surface. If it  

 prevents the spring to break, doesn't it then invite rupture to  

 happen somewhere else? Just wondering.

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

On Sep 26, 2007, at 8:35 AM, Michel Dierick wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    I already decided to change this in a air-chamber like the one on my 

 glider, but this is only a minor problem now.


	


The original Maule gave me a hard ride on asphalt, Michel, and I 

changed it for the Homebuilder one found on Aircraft Spruce. I am very 

pleased with it. The inflatable ones with inner tubes are, of course, 

softer, but heavier and I didn't wanted to upset my weight & balance.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Off-topic

 I'm in Gent next week, I'll send you the pictures of the "Rue des deux 

 ponts - tweebruggenstraat"


	


Dank je wel! 



Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



do not archive

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Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

 	  Quote: 	
		  so can anybody send me some good clear pictures of this tail section (before covering) so that I can see how the fuselage should be normally ? 	




Michel, here is a picture of a Classic 4 tail wheel bolt tubing.  Note the drain holes in the fabric to let the rain water out.

Tail spring bolt tubing1.jpg

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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

Michel , 

I took some pics for you of my tubes inside the inspection hole.



hope this helps you. 



PS  -- You will notice I found my missing  Garmin antenna. THANKS !!

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jezim(at)pro-ns.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

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jezim(at)pro-ns.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link  attachments:

IMG_0255



Note: To protect against computer viruses,  e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file  attachments.  Check your e-mail security settings to determine how  attachments are handled.

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Michel Dierick

Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

I asked the previous owner.

The aircraft has been previously repaired after a former bolt rupture.

It looks like it hasn't been repaired very properly.

I'll see this weekend with a mecanic.



Jezim

The paint on your tail section surely looks waaay better than on mine.    



Greetz

_________________
Flying, yes, but fly safely

Michel "TheDailyFly"

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

Michel -

Sorry to hear that you need to repair your KF. It looks like the hole has taken a beating and I'm wondering if the bolt/nut was tight.

Find the remaining head or other portion of the bolt and show it to a metallurgist.  He can tell very easily if the bolt was involved. For example, did th ebolt have a flaw, break in overload, had it cracked long before the failure, or did it break only after numerous cycles of use (as if loose)? 



Bob

A&P, Aero Eng

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m4785(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

Curious why you stripped the covering,Ihave a kitfox 4 with a 2leaf spring and no problems yet with the tail wheel...lots of 3 point landings..some graceful&some not... 

 I have hear some folks are going to 3 leaf springs,maybe that might work as a solution.. 

  Did you have a hard landing when this occured?, or do you think this is a structural failure in the mounting brackets,and/or metal fatage on the the bolts them selves.....A/N hardware? 

 Note: epoxy braced fills [metal on wood] will give a harmonic that the wood might not support,succesfully causing a fracture in the high stress point... 

  

Thanks ...Mark..N61AC

 [quote]-------------- Original message from "Zimmermans" <jezim(at)pro-ns.net>: -------------- 



         [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

I  think it may be of some value to post a few  pictures.  The next time a spring breaks take a few pix so we can all see  how/where the springs are cracking.  I for one have never flown my 'Fox off  any thing but water.  The idea of wheels or better yet, skis, interests  me.

  

 Noel

  

  -----Original  Message-----

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  m4785(at)bellsouth.net

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:25  AM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:  Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

 [quote]   

   

Curious why you stripped the covering,Ihave a kitfox 4 with a 2leaf spring    and no problems yet with the tail wheel...lots of 3 point landings..some    graceful&some not...   

 I have hear some folks are going to 3 leaf springs,maybe that might    work as a solution..   

  Did you have a hard landing when this occured?, or do you think this    is a structural failure in the mounting brackets,and/or metal fatage on the    the bolts them selves.....A/N hardware?   

 Note: epoxy braced fills [metal on wood] will give a harmonic that    the wood might not support,succesfully causing a fracture in the high stress    point...   

    

Thanks ...Mark..N61AC

    	  Quote: 	
		  --------------      Original message from "Zimmermans" <jezim(at)pro-ns.net>: --------------      



            	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
	
[b]

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

I would venture to guess that  the ones who do more  landings on rougher strips and off airfields will have more failures. 



I have the three leaf on now and no complaints -   > YET   < 



I rarely see paved surfaces - more roads than airports  <Snicker>

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

I have the aluminum spring gear.  I understand it is no longer offered.  I

nearly always land on rough fields.  Should I be changing to a three leaf

spring before I have problems?



Randy Daughenbaugh,  N10NH  180 hours

Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore

Home Strip, Grass   Room in Hangar for visitors

Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip

Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004



--

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Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest

Randy - i have never had a solid alum gear .  Grove ? 

no idea how they hold up. 



I like my bungee gear ,  light and simple

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