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Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Hello,



since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an alternative product to glue the windows in. 



Any ideas?



Michael



www.wellenzohn.net

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Flox - West system epoxy and cotton fiber, works great and doesn't set 

up as fast as Weld-on.



Deems Davis # 406

'Its all done....Its just not put together'

http://deemsrv10.com/



Michael Wellenzohn wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hello,



 since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an alternative product to glue the windows in. 



 Any ideas?



 Michael



 www.wellenzohn.net



 --------

 RV-10 builder (fuselage)

 #511

ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

A friend of mine used Sikaflex-296 UV for his RV-8. He avoided  having to drill any holes in his glass for rivets by using this  product (not that we RV-10 builders have to drill the glass). It looks great and  appears to do the job. I've worked with it a little and it is so much easier to  use than the Weld-On that I used for my windows. But, I can't really make any  solid recommendations. You might try some of the other RV lists to see what the  "consensus" is on this product.

  

 http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-ma-products.htm

  

 -Jim

 40134 - Will this annual inspection ever end?

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/4/2007 5:08:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn"    <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>



Hello,



since Vans doesn't ship    Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an alternative product to    glue the windows in. 



Any    ideas?



Michael



www.wellenzohn.net



	


 



  

 Jim "Scooter"  McGrew

http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew



See what's new at AOL.com and .

  [quote][b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

We use FE6026 Parts A & B (or some number very similar to that) from Spruce.

It is expensive, hazmat stuff, but Spruce will ship internationally, it just

costs a lot.  It is fantastic stuff.  We used Weld-on one time and never

will again.  We haven't tried anything else?



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

I did my first window the other day using this method.  Haven’t finished (need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure that was recommended to install windows so you don’t get any cracking around the edge.   Seems to work good.  So far no cracking J  (not flying)  cj  

    

   

    

As provided by David:  

    

   

    

Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by itself.   

   

(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M Fineline (.5 width)  

(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it easy to pull off.  

(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.  

(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE  

(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.  

(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .   

(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.  

(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers" at the preplanned locations.  

( inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.  

(9) allow to cure 24 hours.  

(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand lightly.  

(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar procedure.) [b]Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.[/b]  The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the aluminum.  

(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.   

(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.  

(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. [b]Have it handy.[/b]  

(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.  

   

   

  

      [quote][b]

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Don't know if they ship internationally but here is an alternative supplier.



http://www.rplastics.com/weldon10.html

William

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ 



------

Nick Leonard

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Two questions - Jesse, how much of the FE6026 is required for the five windows?  More than the one pint?



Jim, a friend of mine used the SikaFlex on his GlaStar and loved it (his windows really look great) but he recommended against using it because SikaFlex requires a 3/16" bed between the window and the base.  We just don't have that much depth on the -10.  Otherwise, I think it would be a perfect, cost effective, solution.

_________________
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Flying

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Michael,



hundreds of GlaStar did use Silpruf SCS 2000 

<http://kbam.geampod.com/KBAM/Reflection/Assets/10412_3.pdf> however you 

can not paint that stuff and the GlaStar has a steel cage so it does not 

need to be structural. Before that area the recommended to glue it in 

with Vinylester, meanwhile that has changed to Silpruf. Jim's 

recomendation below looks good to and it's easy available in 

Switzerland, tensile strengths is better then Silpruf (Weld On has a bit 

a vague value (bond strength) here the details for the Sikaflex 

<http://chindustry.webdms.sika.com/fileshow.do?id=151>



I have a detailed process for the Silpruf window process to get a nice 

result which I believe could be adapted for Sika too, the Sikaflex just 

hardens a bit faster so you need to take that into account.



br Werner



JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   A friend of mine used Sikaflex-296 UV for his RV-8. He avoided 

 having to drill any holes in his glass for rivets by using this 

 product (not that we RV-10 builders have to drill the glass). It looks 

 great and appears to do the job. I've worked with it a little and it 

 is so much easier to use than the Weld-On that I used for my windows. 

 But, I can't really make any solid recommendations. You might try some 

 of the other RV lists to see what the "consensus" is on this product.

  

 http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-ma-products.htm

  

 -Jim

 40134 - Will this annual inspection ever end?

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/4/2007 5:08:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 

 rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:



     

     <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>



     Hello,



     since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you

     know of an alternative product to glue the windows in.



     Any ideas?



     Michael



     www.wellenzohn.net



  

 Jim "Scooter" McGrew

 http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew <http://www.mit.edu/%7Ejsmcgrew>



 See what's new at AOL.com and .

 * 

  *

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Probably the 555 which is for automotive applications would be suitable 

too, same tensile strengths then the 296 tear propagation even higher 

and bed can be down to 3/64"



Werner



nick(at)nleonard.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Two questions - Jesse, how much of the FE6026 is required for the five windows?  More than the one pint?



 Jim, a friend of mine used the SikaFlex on his GlaStar and loved it (his windows really look great) but he recommended against using it because SikaFlex requires a 3/16" bed between the window and the base.  We just don't have that much depth on the -10.  Otherwise, I think it would be a perfect, cost effective, solution.



 --------

 Nick Leonard

 RV-10 (40015) Finish





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138238#138238

henkjan(at)zme.nl
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Hi Michael,



I ordered it with no problem at Van's, what is their argument for not

shipping it anymore?



Henkjan

#40355



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Michael Wellenzohn

Verzonden: donderdag 4 oktober 2007 23:06

Aan: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Onderwerp: Alternatives for Weld On 10?




<rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>



Hello,



since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know

of an alternative product to glue the windows in. 



Any ideas?



Michael



www.wellenzohn.net



--------

RV-10 builder (fuselage)

#511





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138139#138139

Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Wow,



thanks for all your helpful reply. I'll do some more research based on your input.



Henkjan on their website its says below the Weld-On 10 

"This item cannot be shipped internationally. Please contact the manufacturers for availablility in your location."



Davids way surly is good but seems to be quite an undertaking. Is the weld-on route really likely to produce cracks?



Michael

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

I think we order it in the biggest size Spruce offers, but I don't know how

much that is.  A pint (one cup of each?) should be more than enough.  You

can add some flox to thicken it up also.  Make sure you have the area masked

off well before applying, because this stuff does not like to come off of

whatever it sticks to, especially clothing.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Whoa, Chris  

   

Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives.  It seems so tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to avoiding a read.  

   

For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post   http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf  

   

   

For those who need a picture – see attached.  

   

Before using ACETONE.  Understand that it is a great solvent, faster than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual.  Is great for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together.  When used on Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural lubricants which inhibit crazing.  

   

Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of ACETONE touching your windows.  They are a real bitch to replace.  It would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject.  Also, Jesse has never shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and windshield replacement procedure.  First time builders would love to know.  

   

Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys.  I will stand by my source of LP Plastics.  Fifth paragraph  Third sentence.  

   

Been there, done that, won’t ever, ever consider it again – whoever David is “as provided”.  

   

John – not worth more than $00.02  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston

 Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?  

  

     

I did my first window the other day using this method.  Haven’t finished (need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure that was recommended to install windows so you don’t get any cracking around the edge.   Seems to work good.  So far no cracking J  (not flying)  cj  

    

   

    

As provided by David:  

    

   

    

Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by itself.   

   

(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M Fineline (.5 width)  

(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it easy to pull off.  

(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.  

(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE  

(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.  

(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .   

(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.  

(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers" at the preplanned locations.  

( inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.  

(9) allow to cure 24 hours.  

(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand lightly.  

(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar procedure.) [b]Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.[/b]  The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the aluminum.  

(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.   

(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.  

(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. [b]Have it handy.[/b]  

(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.  

   

   

   	  Quote:

100-0006_IMG_2.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

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Viewed:

749 Time(s)

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Does anyone have a lead on the Satinal Pad mentioned in John’s article.  A couple of searches did not produce a supplier.  

   

Gary  

40274  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox

 Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:20 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?  

  

   

Whoa, Chris  

   

Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives.  It seems so tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to avoiding a read.  

   

For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post   http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf  

   

   

For those who need a picture – see attached.  

   

Before using ACETONE.  Understand that it is a great solvent, faster than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual.  Is great for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together.  When used on Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural lubricants which inhibit crazing.  

   

Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of ACETONE touching your windows.  They are a real bitch to replace.  It would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject.  Also, Jesse has never shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and windshield replacement procedure.  First time builders would love to know.  

   

Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys.  I will stand by my source of LP Plastics.  Fifth paragraph  Third sentence.  

   

Been there, done that, won’t ever, ever consider it again – whoever David is “as provided”.  

   

John – not worth more than $00.02  

           

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston

 Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?  

  

     

I did my first window the other day using this method.  Haven’t finished (need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure that was recommended to install windows so you don’t get any cracking around the edge.   Seems to work good.  So far no cracking J  (not flying)  cj  

    

   

    

As provided by David:  

    

   

    

Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by itself.   

   

(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M Fineline (.5 width)  

(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it easy to pull off.  

(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.  

(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE  

(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.  

(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .   

(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.  

(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers" at the preplanned locations.  

( inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.  

(9) allow to cure 24 hours.  

(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand lightly.  

(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar procedure.) [b]Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.[/b]  The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the aluminum.  

(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.   

(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.  

(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. [b]Have it handy.[/b]  

(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.  

   

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com 	


       [quote][b]

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Ouch.  That email had a bit of a barb in it eh?  Oh well, I appreciate the information, and it is timely as well.  I’ll stick to straight mineral spirits I guess.  And hope that the first window I did that way doesn’t cause me to come tumbling out of the sky.  J    

   

John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of response, while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead other builders with thinner skin to not post questions at all.  Just a thought.  I’m sure glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good information out of doing so.  And I’m equally sure that you didn’t intend your email to be as pointy as it sounded on first read.    

   

Anyway, I’ll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you “old fogeys” will hopefully keep setting me straight!  

   

cj    

(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)  

   

   

--

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

I agree with CJ on this one, David posted a tried and true method used by the Glasair crowd with great success, I reposted it after it was asked for a ways back. I enjoy John's heady responses from time to time but jeeezzz  "Fifth paragraph  Third sentence."  Although I realize there is an absence of malice in the post, I hope CJ doesn't jump of a bridge in despair !! Oh wait...he does that for fun... 

I forgot to take into consideration the molecular structure and lubricant content of the plastic, hmmm...lubricant? Plastic? Adhesive? Which one does not go well with a good bond? 

  

Rick S. 

40185 

do not archive 

---

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

No, the barb was for whoever “as provided by David” is… that led you astray down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.  

   

There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of time that Tim has invested.  “Thanks again Tim!” So future builders do not stub their toes on the same rocks along Life’s Highway.  

   

Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise he has gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of aircraft..  Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front window, Aye?  

   

If we can’t share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a good thing after all.  Hopefully there will be at least one builder who doesn’t get crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.  

   

Chris – keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious.  I get lots of great ideas from your progress and experimentation.  I am even looking at a CNC mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston

 Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?  

  

   

Ouch.  That email had a bit of a barb in it eh?  Oh well, I appreciate the information, and it is timely as well.  I’ll stick to straight mineral spirits I guess.  And hope that the first window I did that way doesn’t cause me to come tumbling out of the sky.  J    

   

John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of response, while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead other builders with thinner skin to not post questions at all.  Just a thought.  I’m sure glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good information out of doing so.  And I’m equally sure that you didn’t intend your email to be as pointy as it sounded on first read.    

   

Anyway, I’ll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you “old fogeys” will hopefully keep setting me straight!  

   

cj    

(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)  

   

   

--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

I am the David and I did not suggest using acetone  on any part of the window that is a vieiwing area. All veiwing ares were  protected with signprint.The window flanges were scuffed and cleaned with  acetone. and excess resin (when installing) was cleaned up with a 50/50 mixture  of mineral spirits and acetone. The procedeure I relayed is a procedure that  Phoenix Composities has been using on Glasairs and lancairs for years with good  results.. 

 [quote]   ---

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Tell you what…  you can call me “craze-y” if I can call you “barb-ra”!  hehe.  No, in all seriousness, I take all responsibility for trundling down whatever path I trundle down…  no steam gauges, acetone on my windows… you name it.  Just because someone says “you should do this!” or “I did it this way!” doesn’t mean you should follow.  If all your friends jumped off a building, would you?  oh wait… my friends do, and so do I.  My point is, as a builder, and especially as a first-timer, all you can do is do the research, and make the best decision that you can.  Sometimes, you miss something, as I appear to have in this instance.  At those times, I appreciate when folks like you poke me in the eye and show me that I missed some crucial piece of info.  I do think that the info provided to us by David McNeil is valuable, and maybe your post would be well served as an edit or addendum to a procedure that seems to have enjoyed good results.  You know… in a positive way.  In that spirit, I’ll suggest that the original cleaning of the sanded edges of the window be done with good ole water, and the cleanup done with straight mineral spirits.  All else in the procedure to remain what it is.  Thoughts?  Constructive criticism?    

   

cj  

   

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speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Alternatives for Weld On 10?

Not only Phoenix Composites but hundreds of Glasair and Glastar builders over the years.  As David said use Acetone only on the area to be bonded and only a small amount.  As with anything, if a little is good, more is not necessarily better.  Try breathing humidified air as apposed to 100% water.  

   

Gary  

40274  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill

 Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 2:09 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?  

  

     

I am the David and I did not suggest using acetone on any part of the window that is a vieiwing area. All veiwing ares were protected with signprint.The window flanges were scuffed and cleaned with acetone. and excess resin (when installing) was cleaned up with a 50/50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. The procedeure I relayed is a procedure that Phoenix Composities has been using on Glasairs and lancairs for years with good results..   

  [quote]    

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