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Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

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PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

While in AZ, I had the opportunity to say "hi" to the nice people at http://www.silverskyaviation.com



What a great group of people.  I put in a couple hours of dual time with one of them in their Zodiac.



I'd flown the red & white factory demo at the Zenith hanger in Mexico, Missouri during a Rudder Workshop - but just for a few minutes.  Yesterday I was able to put some real world hands-on stick time on an XL.



Impressions:



On taxi'ing out to the run-up area, I noted the short coupled landing gear made for a tight turning radius. 



Acceleration upon takeoff with the 100hp Continental was brisk.  Takeoff roll was short on the paved runway, and pattern altitude was attained about the time I was turning onto Downwind.  Certainly could have done even better if I'd have been striving for Vy.



Plane has a sensitive elevator.  That's a wonderful thing when you're going slow, and is great for holding the nose up when you're gently dropping the mains upon landing.  Requires a gentle touch at speed, but it's nothing that the average guy isn't going to get the hang of within a few minutes.  It's not a big deal, and you shouldn't let that scare you one bit.



Visibility out of the canopy is great.  Really great.  Nothing else I've ever flown even compares (except a Breezy).



My first attempts at landing were way too fast.  Slowing it way down to about 60 or so was much better.  The XL is an easy airplane to land, and I got the feel for it quite quickly.



We did some slow flight.  With full flaps this plane will hover at about 38.  Unreal, and I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it.  That's Piper Cub range.  Clean stalls were around 48.  There was a stall warning buzzer that went off around 55 or so.   Cruise speed was about 100.



Also did some of the basic stuff - S turns, turns around a point, etc.  It flew very well. Some guys a while back said  "twitchy", but that's not exactly right.  "Crisp" describes it better, if that makes any sense.  Also, the aileron trim makes a huge difference.  If it's out of trim, one wing will be very heavy.  You'll notice it!



The only time I was nervous was during some steep turns.  Given that this was plane was "AMD serial number 1" and there were two pretty big guys in it, I didn't want to push it.  It did have the wing replaced earlier due to previous damage, and during the preflight I checked that the rear attachment bolts looked tight.  Obviously we were fine, so I'll leave it at that.



Overall, I was very impressed with the aircraft.  I'm 6'3" tall and had plenty of headroom.  Never touched shoulders with the other guy, nor did I bump my headset on the canopy.



I'll be doing a few things different in my own Zodiac that I'm building.  The shoulder harness was too long, and I didn't like the flap switch.  A couple inches of leg room would be nice.  Otherwise, it was darn near a perfect setup for me.



What a great way to get motivated for my own project 



Patrick

XL/Corvair

kim.forest(at)surewest.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

Reference to elevator - I like to call it "responsive".   It just sounds 

better than "sensitive"....



Can't wait to fly!

FKeener, Rocklin, CA

CH601XL - 2% done...

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

Was that cruise speed a typo.  surely you did  better than 100 mph.  100knts wouldn't even be to swift.  Bob U.  

 [quote]   ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

That would be the slowest XL I've heard of.



 	  shilcom wrote: 	
		  Was that cruise speed a typo.  surely you did  better than 100 mph.  100knts wouldn't even be to swift.  Bob U.  

---

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

 	  shilcom wrote: 	
		  Was that cruise speed a typo.  surely you did  better than 100 mph. 	




No, not a typo.  I should have asked about the prop - I bet it was a "climb prop".  Climb performance was pretty good, and I know that density altitude is an issue during the summer time in Arizona.



I'll fly it again next time I'm in the area and find out some more.  But it sure was a nice handling airplane, and I'd be happy with it.



Patrick

XL/Corvair

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

At 07:31 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   > Was that cruise speed a typo.  surely you did  better than 100 mph.



No, not a typo.  I should have asked about the prop - I bet it was a 

"climb prop".  Climb performance was pretty good, and I know that 

density altitude is an issue during the summer time in Arizona.


	


If you look at the AMD speed specifications you will see cruise at 

130 mph true airspeed.  This probably translates to a real indicated 

cruise speed of 100 mph as reported.



There is a reason we don't hear much about XL builders using 

Continental O-200 engines.  I suspect AMD chose this path because its 

customers (established FBO/Flight schools) already are familiar with 

this engine and they don't really care about cruise speed.  I see a 

similar phenomenon with the new Cessna 162 that is selling like 

hot-cakes with a Lycoming engine even though it's porky empty weight 

of 830 pounds doesn't allow two adult Americans to fly in it at the same time.



This plodding cruise speed is one of the reasons we are building our 

planes from kits or plans instead of buying factory built 

compromises.  We all want recreational flying craft rather than 

primary trainers.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

The decision to go with the 0-200 is likely a cost issue, in order to get

SLSA approval a certified engine such as the 0-200 makes the process a lot

easier. Also the target purchaser, he is typically a gent who is afraid to

lose his medical. Typically an  older fellow who knows the 0-200 and has in

all likely hood flown behind one at some point. So in order to keep flying

he switches to the LSA category and looks for something he is comfortable

with and does not have to learn. Is it the best choice, maybe, I have a

preference for the Jabiru configuration, but it is not as popular to the

older crowd who just want to continue flying and not have to learn about a

new powerplant. As for the Hot cake Cessna, it is nice for a company to have

so many schools/ dealers that they can tell to purchase a new plane, It may

be selling like hotcakes on paper but it is going down hard without the

syrup for a lot of dealers that have been forced to buy it.



Mark



--

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

Actually.. I've been flying an AMD 601XL for exactly a year.  On Tuesday I flew it back from its annual in Georgia to Marathon in the Florida Keys.  It was about 5 hours in the air with one stop at Lakeland, FL for the old man.   

  

 As far as the indicated airspeed, in general flying I often see indicated at 110-115 knots and I often see 100 knots.  Tuesday was a 100 knot day... at 8500 feet with the ground temp at 92 and the density altitude in the stratosphere someplace.  I had to be that high to scrape over the tops...  and at one point Ft. Myers approach said "uh, three alpha mike .. barometer 2992."  That was the controller's subtle way of asking me if I knew what altitude I was at.  The Dynon reported about 9100'.  Some cloud tops were higher.  The little prop was turning and the fuel was burning, but the airspeed was quivering at 99 knots.  I held the 0-200 to 2550 RPM, although I'm sure it would have been safe closer to the red line.  The EGTs and CHTs were dandy.  I just told him that I was clearing clouds and he said, "Maintain VFR".  That's the right answer.   

  

 My point is that discussion of indicated airspeed is silly without knowing every parameter of the flight.  Density altitude is critical to the discussion.  

  

 As one commentator indicated, as an old guy flyer it gives me great pleasure to be behind an 0-200. I can drop into any field in Florida and find somebody who knows the engine.    

  

 I'm happy to report that the folks at AMD got me out of the annual in exactly 24 hours.  I took off for the return flight exactly 24 hours from when I arrived.  The LONGEST part of the exercise was backing up the Dynon prior to uploading the newest software rev.  That took forever and we were pretty much afraid to touch anything while the Dynon was plugged into the laptop  That's when we went to town and ate fried pork chops, okra, and black eyed peas.  With cherry cobbler and banana pudding.   

  

  Also, happy to report that the latest rev of the D-180 software completely cured the problem of the charging the internal backup battery.  It works now.  

  

 We replaced the non-skid strips and yes, the heat gun made it a piece of cake ... or pecan pie.. as the case may be.        

  

 Oh, by the way, everyone seems to want to know about the AMD Patriot.  Watch for it as a production airplane, with an option for floats, in early 2008.  Pieces and parts from S. America.. customized and assembled for you by fine Georgia (USA) Craftsman.  Engine by Lycoming... and proud of it.    

-- 

Frank Derfler 



-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com 



- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM



-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at  www.KEYSBOATER.com    



-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my   www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com 

  [quote][b]

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

Frank-

     Do you have an early or current  version of the Dynon? Software download problems aside, are you satisfied?  Finally, are software upgrades free, as Dynon ads claim?

 Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuse/Corvair

Townville, Pa

 [quote]   ---

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

Frank--

   Don't know why it took so long for your upgrade on the Dynon.  I just upgraded to the latest software on both my D100 and D180.  The D180 took about 20 minutes to backup current software and about 1/2 to upload new software.  The EFIS only too about 20 minutes to do the upload.

  

 George May

 601XL  912s 164 hours

  	  Quote: 	
		    Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:55:32 -0400

From: fderfler(at)gmail.com

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday



 Actually.. I've been flying an AMD 601XL for exactly a year.  On Tuesday I flew it back from its annual in Georgia to Marathon in the Florida Keys.  It was about 5 hours in the air with one stop at Lakeland, FL for the old man.  

  

 As far as the indicated airspeed, in general flying I often see indicated at 110-115 knots and I often see 100 knots.  Tuesday was a 100 knot day... at 8500 feet with the ground temp at 92 and the density altitude in the stratosphere someplace.  I had to be that high to scrape over the tops...  and at one point Ft. Myers approach said "uh, three alpha mike .. barometer 2992."  That was the controller's subtle way of asking me if I knew what altitude I was at.  The Dynon reported about 9100'.  Some cloud tops were higher.  The little prop was turning and the fuel was burning, but the airspeed was quivering at 99 knots.  I held the 0-200 to 2550 RPM, although I'm sure it would have been safe closer to the red line.  The EGTs and CHTs were dandy.  I just told him that I was clearing clouds and he said, "Maintain VFR".  That's the right answer.  

  

 My point is that discussion of indicated airspeed is silly without knowing every parameter of the flight.  Density altitude is critical to the discussion.  

  

 As one commentator indicated, as an old guy flyer it gives me great pleasure to be behind an 0-200. I can drop into any field in Florida and find somebody who knows the engine.    

  

 I'm happy to report that the folks at AMD got me out of the annual in exactly 24 hours.  I took off for the return flight exactly 24 hours from when I arrived.  The LONGEST part of the exercise was backing up the Dynon prior to uploading the newest software rev.  That took forever and we were pretty much afraid to touch anything while the Dynon was plugged into the laptop  That's when we went to town and ate fried pork chops, okra, and black eyed peas.  With cherry cobbler and banana pudding.   

  

  Also, happy to report that the latest rev of the D-180 software completely cured the problem of the charging the internal backup battery.  It works now.  

  

 We replaced the non-skid strips and yes, the heat gun made it a piece of cake ... or pecan pie.. as the case may be.        

  

 Oh, by the way, everyone seems to want to know about the AMD Patriot.  Watch for it as a production airplane, with an option for floats, in early 2008.  Pieces and parts from S. America.. customized and assembled for you by fine Georgia (USA) Craftsman.  Engine by Lycoming... and proud of it.    

-- 

Frank Derfler 



-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com 



- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM



-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com    



-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my   www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

p://forums.matronics.com



	
	
Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble challenge with star power. Play Now!  [quote][b]

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

George asked if I'm happy with the Dynon, upgrades, and support.  George, I'm very happy with the Dynon.  Personally, I have a problem with the angle of attack indicator (see my Blog below for a movie) and can not recommend the AoA option, but otherwise it is superb.  The online support is excellent.  I have received responses to a question  within an hour even on a weekend.  They are open with their problems and solutions.  Not only are the software upgrades free, they are easy.  

  

 Bill asked why my software upgrade on the D-180 took so long.  Bill, some of us are silly enough to want to backup the old software load just in case.  That Backup takes forever,  I have a feeling there is a mismatch between the block read and block transmission size going from the Dynon RAM thru the Dynon serial port and on through the laptop Serial-to-USB converter we were using.  Blame it on the laptop converter.  Yes, the upload of the new software is speedy and painless..  as long as you don't interrupt it in any way.   

  

 (For Bill and others... the Dynon D-180 that I have (one year old) uses a serial RS-232 port.  You can still find those serial ports on desktop computers, but they are rare on new laptops.  So, you load a USB to serial converter (made in China by companies with wierd names that include Moon and Start or similar objects) into your laptop, cross your fingers, and hope you got all the cable connections right.  Or, you just go out onto eBay and buy an old laptop with a serial port!  (recommended!) )  Or, you bring a desktop PC to the plane or take the Dynon to the desktop.  etc. etc.   

  

 AMD went so far as to install a serial to USB converter into the airplane.  I can get at the Dynon software port from the front panel USB plug (or is it a jack?.. who knows with USB!).  I recommend bringing out either the serial connection or a USB connection to the panel!   

  

 -- 

Frank Derfler 



-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com 



- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM



-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at  www.KEYSBOATER.com    



-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my   www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com 

  [quote][b]

yak52

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 50

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday

The decision to go with an 0-200 is based on more factors than cost although:

1.You can buy an 0-200 and rebuild it to specifications that have been proven by over 40 years of flying experience for less than the cost of a new Rotax or Jabiru.

2. Sensenich and other propellor manufacturers will be able to provide you with a propellor  specifically for that engine.

3. An 0-200  does not require you to be the test pilot while Rotax and others go through their "teething" problems.

3. Almost any airport with a maintenance facility can and will repair your 0-200 should you need it during cross country flights.

  Additionally, there is nothing new to "learn" to operate either a Rotax  or a Jabiru other than how to get the engine over to the repair facility during its "teething" problems.



Cessna's decision to use the Continental came after the airplane was taken around the airshow circuit with a Rotax and seeking pilot input as to their preference for the engine. Cessna wanted the Rotax, but the people who were going to fly and maintain them wanted the Continental.

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