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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:05 am Post subject: Fossil Fuels |
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On Oct 13, 2007, at 11:46 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
| Quote: | I think the point Noel is making is two-fold.
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I agree with you, Mike (and Noel, in that sense). Your points are also
what I have read. I was merely trying to illustrate what I think I
understand about the difference between fossil fuel and renewable fuel,
upon the content of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
But my personal opinion about global warming is this: The problem arose
some ten thousand years ago when hunting and gathering humans started
agricultural growth. Until then, the earth could accept about five
million humans. It was in balance. When we started growing our own food
and keep cattle, we increased our population. It went slowly from five
millions to 2.5 billion in 1948, when I was born, to 6.6 billion today.
The earth cannot bear our pollution and the carbon dioxide release from
fossil fuel is only the tip of an iceberg we'll have to solve in the
future. But talking about over-population is a political suicide in our
politically-correct society. Carbon dioxide is an easier target.
Regarding the price of corn, I entirely agree with you, it is insane. I
Europe, we talk about producing ethanol from bio-mass, i.e. all kind of
organic waste such as hay, timber industrial waste and even human food
waste. Will it work? I don't know.
In Norway, 35% of our carbon dioxide release comes from the offshore
oil production - not the use of it, only the production! Yet, in a
measure to look more environmentally friendly, our government has
recently decided for the 2008 budget to increase the taxes on
automotive diesel fuel and jet fuel, in the hope that people will drive
and fly less. Of course, it's a win-win decision for them: They look
environmentally friendly and they get more money for the state budget.
But will it help? I think not.
Meanwhile, I am prepared to use only AvGas in my Jabiru engine.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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jimlc
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Loveland, CO
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: Fossil Fuels |
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Here is some food for thought. My chemical engineer son tells me that
carbon dioxide is not a very effective greenhouse gas and others are more
effective. Also note that a trend of earth warming is not unusual in
itself. Years 900 to 1400 AD were warm. Possibly warmer in part. History
records the period as one of good living in Europe with longer growing
seasons and high crop production. Greenland actually had green fields and
supported animal grassing. Grapes were even grown there and settlements
prospered.
There appears to have been a connection between carbon dioxide levels and
warming, but the higher levels trailed rather than led in the time line.
There are other even warmer times in the earths past. The current push on
global warming is largely political and lacks scientific objectivity.
Producing fuel from a finished product like corn helps little, if any, and
makes little sense.
One the other hand burning oil is a waste of a valuable chemical stock which
will probably be seen in the future as a great folly. We need to get beyond
political correctness and apply real science and logic to the issue--not
politics and especially not the politics of the United Nations.
Much of what we are doing is still OK. Burning less oil, using more solar,
developing things like ocean wave energy, are all good. But making fuel
from corn and food grain is wasteful and diverts money from valid efforts.
And besides, history tells us we will still likely experience global warming
periods.
Jim Crowder
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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vulcanc2002(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: Fossil Fuels |
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Jim,
Thanks! as succinct and realistic as I've ever heard that said.
Dave Hein
Jim Crowder <jimlc(at)att.net> wrote:[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim Crowder"
Here is some food for thought. My chemical engineer son tells me that
carbon dioxide is not a very effective greenhouse gas and others are more
effective. Also note that a trend of earth warming is not unusual in
itself. Years 900 to 1400 AD were warm. Possibly warmer in part. History
records the period as one of good living in Europe with longer growing
seasons and high crop production. Greenland actually had green fields and
supported animal grassing. Grapes were even grown there and settlements
prospered.
There appears to have been a connection between carbon dioxide levels and
warming, but the higher levels trailed rather than led in the time line.
There are other even warmer times in the earths past. The current push on
global warming is largely political and lacks scientific objectivity.
Producing fuel from a finished product like corn helps little, if any, and
makes little sense.
One the other hand burning oil is a waste of a valuable chemical stock which
will probably be seen in the future as a great folly. We need to get beyond
political correctness and apply real science and logic to the issue--not
politics and especially not the politics of the United Nations.
Much of what we are doing is still OK. Burning less oil, using more solar,
developing things like ocean wave energy, are all good. But making fuel
from corn and food grain is wasteful and diverts money from valid efforts.
And besides, history tells us we will still likely experience global warming
periods.
Jim Crowder
DO NOT [quote][b]
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chrigra(at)gmx.ch
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: Fossil Fuels |
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Hi
As an engineer I am shure (and all studies show this, use linke below) that bio-fuel does NOT solve the CO2 problem, and does NOT solve the resource problem.
Bio-fuel must be produced.
If it is produced with corn (or sugar) the CO2 balance is worse than diesel per Kwh, the overall energy efficiency range is -10% (!) up to +20%. A bad deal, which cannot be a solution! Politicians only believe this.
http://www.empa.ch/plugin/template/empa/3/60112/---/l=1
Christoph
Switzerland
KF IV/1050
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: Fossil Fuels |
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On a related topic those of you who like to imbibe a wee dram of JD in the
evening be prepared to pay more for it. The cost of the raw material is
rocketing up... when resources are available. Maybe more will have to
develop a taste for a good single malt Scotch or tea.
Noel
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