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john_graham

Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Algonquin, IL

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: RPA Checklist

The RPA checklist for a Yak 52 has been a great help to me.  I have 3 questions:



1.  During the run up it states to set the prop at 64% and move the throttle and verify the 64% stays constant.  What is the purpose of this.  



2.  Before take off it states to move the flap handle to Neutral. Won't this depressurize the flap system and slam them down when the flaps are lowered?



3.  During climb and after raising the gear, it states to put the gear handle in Neutral.  Any reason for this or can it stay in th UP position. 



Thanks (as always) for the help. 



John

N15YK

       

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_________________
John Graham
N15YK 1993 Yak-52
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
(847) 641-1330

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: RPA Checklist

John,

None of that is in my now anciently translated version of the original YAK

student pilot's handbook. It says set the prop at full forward and set

"advance" (manifold pressure) at 70%, check mags for not greater than 3%

drop per side.

It only recommends setting the flaps and gear to the neutral position for

the cockpit that is not commanding the gear or flaps. It only specifies

placing the gear handle in neutral  to depressurize the system before

blowing the gear down from the emergency system. 

Have not looked at in a while but that is the best that I remember of it,

Doc



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dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: RPA Checklist

John,

My comments IAW your question numbers -

1. The purpose is to check the prop governor's ability to hold a constant 

RPM.

2. Do NOT do this!  You are 100% correct.  If your copy of the manual says 

this, the manual should be changed immediately and you should notify the 

creator of manual that it is wrong.

3. Do NOT do this!  You are depressurizing the landing gear actuators AND 

the uplock assemblies.  Unless you remember to put the gear handle BACK to 

the UP position BEFORE moving the gear handle to the DOWN position, the 

landing gear actuators will slam down.  I guarantee it WILL get your 

attention and a neophyte back seater will have the crap scared out of them. 

Keep the gear handle in the UP position but DO NOT put the slide lock in 

place while the gear handle is in the UP position during flight.  Too many 

people have lowered the gear handle to the neutral position with the slide 

lock in place and "heard" the hiss, thinking the gear was down and locked 

when in fact, the gear was just hanging limp.  They also did not check for 

the green lights and assumed the gear was down AND locked because they 1) 

felt the firm stop of the gear handle and 2) heard the hiss of the actuators 

depressurizing.   When the prop goes "ding", "ding" on the runway, you'll 

realize you only had the handle in the neutral position and a very loud "Oh, 

SH--" is heard emanating from the cockpit.



As I said, wherever the flight manual is posted, it should have these 

instructions immediately corrected.  Especially #3 because it is inviting a 

potential gear up landing.

Dennis



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cliff(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: RPA Checklist

John, it sounds like you have the instructors manual, not the pilot's 

manual.



In any event, unless the compressor is having real problems, there's no 

real reason to return the handles to the neutral position after selection.



It's certainly not going to damage anything to select gear neutral after 

the gear is locked up. 

The uplocks are mechanical latches and will not release until the gear 

is selected down. 

The same is true from the flap system- it's mechanically locked in 

either position.



If either of these systems allow movement after they've reached the 

selected position, then you have a failure of the locking mechanism- 

most likely due to corrosion.



Dennis is absolutely correct about air cushioning.  The gear system 

*requires* pressurization on the opposite side of the actuator to slow 

the movement of the gear.  DAMAGE WILL RESULT from slamming the gear up 

or down.  The uplocks take the damage from slamming the gear up- most 

notably the nose gear.  If the little roller wheel is bent off to the 

side, then the gear's been slammed up.



If you or your mechanic is slamming the gear down during the emergency 

gear system test....You're doing it wrong!  And eventually the system is 

going to crack at the actuator attach points.



So before selecting up, select down first and vice versa.....or simply 

never leave the handles in the neutral position.



Sure if you're low on air and you want to conserve what you've got for 

starting, then go ahead and select the neutral positions *before opening 

the main air valve* and that will only allow the air to be used for 

starting and brakes.



 Just don't forget to select gear down and flaps up after the engine is 

running.



If anyone needs a gear swing checklist let me know off list.



Cheers,

Cliff



A. Dennis Savarese wrote:



[quote] 

 <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com>



 John,

 My comments IAW your question numbers -

 1. The purpose is to check the prop governor's ability to hold a 

 constant RPM.

 2. Do NOT do this!  You are 100% correct.  If your copy of the manual 

 says this, the manual should be changed immediately and you should 

 notify the creator of manual that it is wrong.

 3. Do NOT do this!  You are depressurizing the landing gear actuators 

 AND the uplock assemblies.  Unless you remember to put the gear handle 

 BACK to the UP position BEFORE moving the gear handle to the DOWN 

 position, the landing gear actuators will slam down.  I guarantee it 

 WILL get your attention and a neophyte back seater will have the crap 

 scared out of them. Keep the gear handle in the UP position but DO NOT 

 put the slide lock in place while the gear handle is in the UP 

 position during flight.  Too many people have lowered the gear handle 

 to the neutral position with the slide lock in place and "heard" the 

 hiss, thinking the gear was down and locked when in fact, the gear was 

 just hanging limp.  They also did not check for the green lights and 

 assumed the gear was down AND locked because they 1) felt the firm 

 stop of the gear handle and 2) heard the hiss of the actuators 

 depressurizing.   When the prop goes "ding", "ding" on the runway, 

 you'll realize you only had the handle in the neutral position and a 

 very loud "Oh, SH--" is heard emanating from the cockpit.



 As I said, wherever the flight manual is posted, it should have these 

 instructions immediately corrected.  Especially #3 because it is 

 inviting a potential gear up landing.

 Dennis



 ---

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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: RPA Checklist

In a message dated 10/17/2007 4:53:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  cliff(at)gesoco.com writes:

  

 John,

  

 I agree totally with all below except for one item.  At least on the  CJ-6 the flaps do not have lock down or lock up.  Pressure holds the flaps  down as long as either flap handle is in the down position.  The rear  handle (instructors seat) has presidents over the front handle.  Put both  handles in the neutral position, takes pressure off both sides of the  actuator.  A bungee cord in the flap area will pull the flap up.  At  least on the CJ - I am not sure about the Yak.

  

 One other detail not mention here is that both the gear and flap lines have  small conical washer with a hole about .05 dia.  These are  usually located in the lines where B nuts attach to fittings in the wheel  wells.  For the flap they are located right where the line attaches to the  flap actuator.  If you take off these lines for any reason, it is very easy  for these to drop out un-noticed.  The purpose is to meter the out and in  flow.  These control to certain extent the rate that gear and flaps  retract.  Craig Payne went to a great deal of fiddling to get his gear to  retract evenly and at the same time, just by adjusting the size of these  holes.  But you still need the air pressure to work against.

  

 Leaving gear handle in the up position has absolutely no effect on the wear  of seals in the actuator.  As a matter of fact, some CJ (mine is one) have  no up locks at all.  The only thing that holds the gear up is the pressure  in the system.  

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

 [quote]-->    Yak-List message posted by: Cliff Coy    <cliff(at)gesoco.com>

John, it sounds like you have the    instructors manual, not the pilot's 

manual.



In any event, unless    the compressor is having real problems, there's no 

real reason to return    the handles to the neutral position after selection.



It's certainly not    going to damage anything to select gear neutral after 

the gear is locked    up. 

The uplocks are mechanical latches and will not release until the gear    

is selected down. 

The same is true from the flap system- it's    mechanically locked in 

either position.



If either of these systems    allow movement after they've reached the 

selected position, then you have    a failure of the locking mechanism- 

most likely due to    corrosion.



Dennis is absolutely correct about air cushioning.  The    gear system 

*requires* pressurization on the opposite side of the actuator    to slow 

the movement of the gear.  DAMAGE WILL RESULT from slamming    the gear up 

or down.  The uplocks take the damage from slamming the    gear up- most 

notably the nose gear.  If the little roller wheel is    bent off to the 

side, then the gear's been slammed up.



If you or    your mechanic is slamming the gear down during the emergency 

gear system    test....You're doing it wrong!  And eventually the system is 

going to    crack at the actuator attach points.



So before selecting up, select    down first and vice versa.....or simply 

never leave the handles in the    neutral position.



Sure if you're low on air and you want to conserve    what you've got for 

starting, then go ahead and select the neutral    positions *before opening 

the main air valve* and that will only allow the    air to be used for 

starting and brakes.



Just don't forget to select    gear down and flaps up after the engine is 

running.



If anyone needs    a gear swing checklist let me know off list.



Cheers,

Cliff



A.    Dennis Savarese wrote:



[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "A.    Dennis Savarese" 

 <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com>



    John,

 My comments IAW your question numbers -

 1. The purpose    is to check the prop governor's ability to hold a 

 constant    RPM.

 2. Do NOT do this!  You are 100% correct.  If your copy    of the manual 

 says this, the manual should be changed immediately and    you should 

 notify the creator of manual that it is wrong.

 3.    Do NOT do this!  You are depressurizing the landing gear actuators    

 AND the uplock assemblies.  Unless you remember to put the gear    handle 

 BACK to the UP position BEFORE moving the gear handle to the    DOWN 

 position, the landing gear actuators will slam down.  I    guarantee it 

 WILL get your attention and a neophyte back seater will    have the crap 

 scared out of them. Keep the gear handle in the UP    position but DO NOT 

 put the slide lock in place while the gear handle    is in the UP 

 position during flight.  Too many people have    lowered the gear handle 

 to the neutral position with the slide lock    in place and "heard" the 

 hiss, thinking the gear was down and locked    when in fact, the gear was 

 just hanging limp.  They also did not    check for the green lights and 

 assumed the gear was down AND locked    because they 1) felt the firm 

 stop of the gear handle and 2) heard    the hiss of the actuators 

 depressurizing.   When the prop    goes "ding", "ding" on the runway, 

 you'll realize you only had the    handle in the neutral position and a 

 very loud "Oh, SH--" is heard    emanating from the cockpit.



 As I said, wherever the flight    manual is posted, it should have these 

 instructions immediately    corrected.  Especially #3 because it is 

 inviting a potential    gear up landing.

 Dennis



 ---

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