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know of a fast plane?

 
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cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
Guest
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: know of a fast plane? Reply with quote
Brian- i know you have you're pulse on the aviation
industry. Know of any plane that can go over 250mph
that is a 1-seater without crazy fuel burn and decent
safety record? charles
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com>


Translation of first paragraph talking about a
member of the flying club saying that the guy had a
lot of time in this plane and other ultralights. He
says the plane has one of the best engines on the
market and is able to fly both fast and extremely
slow.



Second paragraph says the aircraft crashed onto a
road below, two occupants died, weather was sunny
and the winds were calm. The owner/pilot, a
Policeman in a nearby city, had recently built his
own airplane. Cause of the crash was unknown and is
being investigated.



The last paragraph states that two people died in a
crash when they landed on a golf course.



I think I basically got that all right. These two
seem to be old accidents though, from 2003. Not
sure if any investigation was completed, but it
would appear, at least in the first accident that
the aircraft lost control, apparently unrelated to
weather. In all liklihood this would appear to be
pilot error. (due to the fact the weather was great
and the aircraft lost control. Also human error
being much more likely than any type of component
failure) Not really sure what this has to do with
the present day or the Lightning for that matter.
Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is a
part 2. Brian W.


> Subject: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual
safety
> From: dececk(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:19:30 -0700
> To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> hi
> here you can find some accident about esqual in
spanish
> at this list, add the latest one: yesterday a
friend of mine had a deadly accident with esqual...
>
> sorry for my english
>
>
>
>
> 27-09-03
> Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse
>
> ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)
>
>
>
> La zona donde se produjo el accidente con la
avioneta es un área de vuelo «perfecta»; en
realidad tan buena como cualquiera de las que se
utilizan para la práctica de este deporte, ya que,
teniendo en cuenta que no es la altura de los
aviones comerciales de pasajeros, del Ejército o de
otros usos oficiales, no hay altas montañas, ni
turbulencias, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias
que influyan decisivamente en la navegación. Se
trata de zonas muy similares en toda España, donde
los únicos espacios restringidos para esta
práctica son los parques naturales, zonas
militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y también
está prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.
>
> Así, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en
un día meteorológicamente adecuado para este
deporte, tal como explica el director de
competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora, Antonio
Coco, quien además pertenece al de aeroestación
(vuelo en globo) y practica el vuelo en ultraligero.
>
> Antonio Coco rechaza pronunciarse sobre las
posibles causas del accidente por mera prudencia,
pero sí conocía a una de las víctimas del
accidente J.G.G. y sabe que tenía experiencia de
vuelo: sólo el ultraligero que se supone que
pilotaba tenía cuarenta horas de vuelo, luego al
menos con el 'Squal' ya había practicado un tiempo
considerable en este tipo de aparatos, sin contar
las que hubiera hecho con otros. Desde luego,
disponía del título de vuelo deportivo que expide
Aviación Civil, tras las correspondientes pruebas
teóricas y prácticas.
>
> Del mismo modo, tal como señaló otro aficionado,
Carlos Martín, el aparato era un modelo nuevo,
«con uno de los mejores motores del mercado». El
'Squal', es una avioneta rápida, que entra en
pérdida (desciende) a menos de cien kilómetros por
hora. Este tipo de ultraligeros tienen una
autonomía de vuelo de hasta dos horas, en función
de la atmósfera, de la dirección del aire, del
peso o del número de pasajeros.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 03-10-03
>
>
>
> Un policía local y un rumano mueren al
estrellarse con su U.L.M. (Escual) en Tortosa.
>
>
>
> El aparato se precipitó sobre un camino y sus dos
ocupantes fallecieron en el acto.
>
> Dos personas mueren al estrellarse, hacia las 13
horas, el ultraligero con el que sobrevolaban el
término municipal de Tortosa (Tarragona).
> Los fallecidos han sido identificados como Josep
Maria Sánchez, de 41 años y nacionalidad
española, y C.V, de 40 años y nacionalidad rumana.
El ultraligero, pilotada por Sánchez, que era
policía local en Tortosa, ha caído sobre el camino
del Igallo de Xies, cerca de la carretera C-12, por
causas que todavía se desconocen.
> La investigación está a cargo de agentes de la
Guardia Civil, que ya se han puesto en contacto con
la Dirección General de Aviación Civil para
obtener más datos sobre el aparato para poder
instruir diligencias.
> Al parecer, las dos víctimas, cuya relación
entre ambos se desconoce, viajaban en una antigua
avioneta transformada en ultraligero, según fuentes
de la Guardia Civil. Josep Maria Sánchez, vecino de
Roquetes, casado y con tres hijas, según han
comentado algunos de sus conocidos, se había
construido en los últimos tiempos su propia
avioneta.
> Las condiciones meteorológicas hoy en las Tierras
del Ebro son buenas, luce el sol y no sopla el
viento. Hasta el lugar de los hechos se han
trasladado efectivos de la Guardia Civil, Mossos
d'Esquadra, Policía Local y Bomberos, así como el
juez de guardia de Tortosa que ha procedido, hacia
las tres de la tarde, al levantamiento de los
cadáveres para su traslado hasta el tanatorio de
Tortosa.
>
>
>
> 20-10-03
>
> Accidente de un Escual en Moiá, Barcelona.
>
> El piloto, Francisco Velasco y su acompañante, un
hombre de nacionalidad finlandesa, fallecieron al
estrellarse el ultraligero en el que viajaban sobre
un campo de golf.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141359#141359

Quote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________

Quote:


browse
Subscriptions page,

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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject: know of a fast plane? Reply with quote
Charles,
I do have an appreciation for all things that go fast. I do know of maybe aircraft that are single or dual seat aircraft capable of that speed and easy on the fuel, unfortunately they are one of a kind aircraft. One of these is Cory Bird's "Symmetry" which probably several people have seen at Oskosh. Little yellow airplane. If you haven't read the history of the plane it is incredible! He spent a couple of years alone making the wings as smooth as posible. They weren't just smooth though, there was virtually no distortion in the wing, even the slightest ripple or ridge.

There's a couple of unfortunate problems with what you asked about. First, even though I'm certain the guy saw some real benefits in airspeed from that kind of attention to detail, most of us aren't that dedicated and consider the time put into it versus the reward and decide against it. I was writing a paper a couple of years back that compared and contrasted light sport aircraft for training purposes and compared them to 5 popular non-light sport aircraft. I compared several performance variables between all aircraft. Anyhow, long story short one of those was comparing the engines, specifically the fuel flow in gph per horsepower. All the light sport were pretty much identical, which I kind of expected. The thing I didn't expect was the higher horsepower engines and the aircraft not limited to light sport speeds also had almost the exact same ratio.  What this tells me is that you can only get so much power out of a gallon of gas, no matter how fuel efficient the engine is. So, that means we have to compete on the level of superior aerodynamics.

What I learned with the Arion project was just how important that frontal area of an aircraft is. If you notice the Lightning doesn't have an elevated seat like in a Cessna 182, you basically sit on the floor. It does have a reclined seat back which gives even 6 foot 4 guys the ability to have headroom, but doesn't vertically stretch out the cockpit. How much speed do you think an additional 6 inches across the top of the canopy would make? Well it's not just the 6 inches vertical, but the 40 some odd inches horizontal. That's a lot of square inch area that would add to the airframe. Now if you've ever stuck your hand out the window and held it out like a wing and felt it glide on the breeze, then turn it vertical against the win and felt the force of resistence, then you're starting to understand how just a little surface can create a huge amount of drag. Another point is that of having a high natural laminar flow wing. Now I'm not talking about minimizing Induced Drag here, that becomes less important as you go faster, I'm talking about the mixing of the air caused by having the vortices come off of a wing at a point further forward than a NLF wing. The NLF wing can basically be considered sleeker because it's not displacing air as far from the aircraft as a more inefficient wing. (Also the reason why having a balanced cross-sectional area on a subsonic aircraft can greatly reduce drag) Arion does a pretty good job at both, while staying within their mission objectives.

Now having said all of that, I have been trying to get sponsorship for a racer that should settle in around 250-270mph. My plans were to use a modified version of a Jabiru engine. The aircraft is an Italian built tandem seat plane, that would need some modifications including fitting the Jabiru engine. If you're interested I could tell you more about this.

The problem with that is that there's absolutely no idea on the safety of such an aircraft. In racing there's a certain amount of give in safety in order to achieve speed. One example is doing away with stability in order to achive higher speeds. I've talked to the Jabiru engine guys in Australia and tried to get an idea of how an indipendent company was able to get a whole lot more power out of the 3300 than standard. They told me they didn't know of that project, but gave me some suggestions.  They did tell me they had a guy get 140hp out of a very slightly modified engine though! Basically the highly modified engine was twin turbo and EFI'd though. It was a defense contractor so they appear to not respond when I try to get specifics. Of course the more you get away from the standard product the more questionable the longevity of the engine is, and therefore is hard to say if it is "Safe".

One thing that is true without having to fill in the numbers is that it takes more power to go faster. It also takes more fuel to make more power as previously established. Right now there's less of a track record for GA aircraft in the 250-300mph range because it's been relatively recently that that's been an option. Sorry for the long email, but basically the answer is a complex no. I think we could get you there, but you'd have to sacrifice a margin of safety or fuel consumption, or most likely would be the increase in $$. I had a guy tell me to buy a warbird, a Yak, instead of trying to compete in the 250-300mph sports class races as it would come cheaper and place better in the Unlimited class. (sports class, back of the pack is running around 250mph for the slowest heat races, 300-400mph for most of the real racers) I wanted to go in and prove that something with half the displacement could still be fast and fuel efficient though. A good showing at Reno and some media attention would mean that engine and aircraft manufacturers pay attention and try to use that kind of thinking in future designs. Alas nobody is beating down the doors to help fund me. Hope this helps, Brian W.

Quote:
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:11 -0700
From: cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
Subject: RE: know of a fast plane?
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

--> Lightning-List message posted by: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com>

Brian- i know you have you're pulse on the aviation
industry. Know of any plane that can go over 250mph
that is a 1-seater without crazy fuel burn and decent
safety record? charles
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

> --> Lightning-List message posted by: Brian
> Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com>
>
>
> Translation of first paragraph talking about a
> member of the flying club saying that the guy had a
> lot of time in this plane and other ultralights. He
> says the plane has one of the best engines on the
> market and is able to fly both fast and extremely
> slow.
>
>
>
> Second paragraph says the aircraft crashed onto a
> road below, two occupants died, weather was sunny
> and the winds were calm. The owner/pilot, a
> Policeman in a nearby city, had recently built his
> own airplane. Cause of the crash was unknown and is
> being investigated.
>
>
>
> The last paragraph states that two people died in a
> crash when they landed on a golf course.
>
>
>
> I think I basically got that all right. These two
> seem to be old accidents though, from 2003. Not
> sure if any investigation was completed, but it
> would appear, at least in the first accident that
> the aircraft lost control, apparently unrelated to
> weather. In all liklihood this would appear to be
> pilot error. (due to the fact the weather was great
> and the aircraft lost control. Also human error
> being much more likely than any type of component
> failure) Not really sure what this has to do with
> the present day or the Lightning for that matter.
> Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is a
> part 2. Brian W.
>
>
> > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual
> safety
> > From: dececk(at)hotmail.com
> > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:19:30 -0700
> > To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > --> Lightning-List message posted by: "dececk"
> >
> > hi
> > here you can find some accident about esqual in
> spanish
> > at this list, add the latest one: yesterday a
> friend of mine had a deadly accident with esqual...
> >
> > sorry for my english
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 27-09-03
> > Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse
> >
> > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)
> >
> >
> >
> > La zona donde se produjo el accidente con la
> avioneta es un área de vuelo «perfecta»; en
> realidad tan buena como cualquiera de las que se
> utilizan para la práctica de este deporte, ya que,
> teniendo en cuenta que no es la altura de los
> aviones comerciales de pasajeros, del Ejército o de
> otros usos oficiales, no hay altas montañas, ni
> turbulencias, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias
> que influyan decisivamente en la navegación. Se
> trata de zonas muy similares en toda España, donde
> los únicos espacios restringidos para esta
> práctica son los parques naturales, zonas
> militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y también
> está prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.
> >
> > Así, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en
> un día meteorológicamente adecuado para este
> deporte, tal como explica el director de
> competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora, Antonio
> Coco, quien además pertenece al de aeroestación
> (vuelo en globo) y practica el vuelo en ultraligero.
> >
> > Antonio Coco rechaza pronunciarse sobre las
> posibles causas del accidente por mera prudencia,
> pero sí conocía a una de las víctimas del
> accidente J.G.G. y sabe que tenía experiencia de
> vuelo: sólo el ultraligero que se supone que
> pilotaba tenía cuarenta horas de vuelo, luego al
> menos con el 'Squal' ya había practicado un tiempo
> considerable en este tipo de aparatos, sin contar
> las que hubiera hecho con otros. Desde luego,
> disponía del título de vuelo deportivo que expide
> Aviación Civil, tras las correspondientes pruebas
> teóricas y prácticas.
> >
> > Del mismo modo, tal como señaló otro aficionado,
> Carlos Martín, el aparato era un modelo nuevo,
> «con uno de los mejores motores del mercado». El
> 'Squal', es una avioneta rápida, que entra en
> pérdida (desciende) a menos de cien kilómetros por
> hora. Este tipo de ultraligeros tienen una
> autonomía de vuelo de hasta dos horas, en función
> de la atmósfera, de la dirección del aire, del
> peso o del número de pasajeros.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 03-10-03
> >
> >
> >
> > Un policía local y un rumano mueren al
> estrellarse con su U.L.M. (Escual) en Tortosa.
> >
> >
> >
> > El aparato se precipitó sobre un camino y sus dos
> ocupantes fallecieron en el acto.
> >
> > Dos personas mueren al estrellarse, hacia las 13
> horas, el ultraligero con el que sobrevolaban el
> término municipal de Tortosa (Tarragona).
> > Los fallecidos han sido identificados como Josep
> Maria Sánchez, de 41 años y nacionalidad
> española, y C.V, de 40 años y nacionalidad rumana.
> El ultraligero, pilotada por Sánchez, que era
> policía local en Tortosa, ha caído sobre el camino
> del Igallo de Xies, cerca de la carretera C-12, por
> causas que todavía se desconocen.
> > La investigación está a cargo de agentes de la
> Guardia Civil, que ya se han puesto en contacto con
> la Dirección General de Aviación Civil para
> obtener más datos sobre el aparato para poder
> instruir diligencias.
> > Al parecer, las dos víctimas, cuya relación
> entre ambos se desconoce, viajaban en una antigua
> avioneta transformada en ultraligero, según fuentes
> de la Guardia Civil. Josep Maria Sánchez, vecino de
> Roquetes, casado y con tres hijas, según han
> comentado algunos de sus conocidos, se había
> construido en los últimos tiempos su propia
> avioneta.
> > Las condiciones meteorológicas hoy en las Tierras
> del Ebro son buenas, luce el sol y no sopla el
> viento. Hasta el lugar de los hechos se han
> trasladado efectivos de la Guardia Civil, Mossos
> d'Esquadra, Policía Local y Bomberos, así como el
> juez de guardia de Tortosa que ha procedido, hacia
> las tres de la tarde, al levantamiento de los
> cadáveres para su traslado hasta el tanatorio de
> Tortosa.
> >
> >
> >
> > 20-10-03
> >
> > Accidente de un Escual en Moiá, Barcelona.
> >
> > El piloto, Francisco Velasco y su acompañante, un
> hombre de nacionalidad finlandesa, fallecieron al
> estrellarse el ultraligero en el que viajaban sobre
> un campo de golf.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141359#141359
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
>
=== message truncated ===


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Back to top
dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: know of a fast plane? Reply with quote
Charles,
Another thought. Great fuel burn is subjective. Some people say 15gph at 250mph would be good. Probably looking at 15-20gph for most, I think 30-40 gph was what I heard for the modified NXT's around 400mph and same with the modified Lanciar Legacy. If that fuel burn is okay with you, then there's several good candidates. The Questair Venture (egg with wings and funky retract landing gear) the Lancair Legacy, The F-1 Rocket with EVO options will get that at full throttle, Glassair III. All of those you're burning 15gph or more though.

Here's a link to an article on the Symmetry: http://www.sportsmanpilot.com/AL/articles/spr2003/Spring2003.htm

Similarly the Smith AJ-2 had an IO-360 and would do 200mph at 55% throttle or 250mph at 75% throttle. (think about thatand I think you've got a pretty good rule of thumb, it takes 50% more power to run an airframe at 250mph than it did at 200mph!) Both of those ran around 10gph I think.  Both were one off airframes. Both had extensive wing contouring. Both used a slightly modified IO-360 for weight and fuel burn. and both used the NACA 64-212 airfoil. Problem was landing speeds were high. The symmetry was 120 on base, 100 on final, with 85 knots over the numbers. Sure you can do it and do it safely, but that makes all those numbers like takeoff and landing distances go up a lot too.  Still, very impressive airplanes! Brian W.

Quote:
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:11 -0700
From: cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
Subject: RE: know of a fast plane?
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

--> Lightning-List message posted by: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com>

Brian- i know you have you're pulse on the aviation
industry. Know of any plane that can go over 250mph
that is a 1-seater without crazy fuel burn and decent
safety record? charles
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

> --> Lightning-List message posted by: Brian
> Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com>
>
>
> Translation of first paragraph talking about a
> member of the flying club saying that the guy had a
> lot of time in this plane and other ultralights. He
> says the plane has one of the best engines on the
> market and is able to fly both fast and extremely
> slow.
>
>
>
> Second paragraph says the aircraft crashed onto a
> road below, two occupants died, weather was sunny
> and the winds were calm. The owner/pilot, a
> Policeman in a nearby city, had recently built his
> own airplane. Cause of the crash was unknown and is
> being investigated.
>
>
>
> The last paragraph states that two people died in a
> crash when they landed on a golf course.
>
>
>
> I think I basically got that all right. These two
> seem to be old accidents though, from 2003. Not
> sure if any investigation was completed, but it
> would appear, at least in the first accident that
> the aircraft lost control, apparently unrelated to
> weather. In all liklihood this would appear to be
> pilot error. (due to the fact the weather was great
> and the aircraft lost control. Also human error
> being much more likely than any type of component
> failure) Not really sure what this has to do with
> the present day or the Lightning for that matter.
> Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is a
> part 2. Brian W.
>
>
> > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual
> safety
> > From: dececk(at)hotmail.com
> > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:19:30 -0700
> > To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > --> Lightning-List message posted by: "dececk"
> >
> > hi
> > here you can find some accident about esqual in
> spanish
> > at this list, add the latest one: yesterday a
> friend of mine had a deadly accident with esqual...
> >
> > sorry for my english
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 27-09-03
> > Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse
> >
> > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)
> >
> >
> >
> > La zona donde se produjo el accidente con la
> avioneta es un área de vuelo «perfecta»; en
> realidad tan buena como cualquiera de las que se
> utilizan para la práctica de este deporte, ya que,
> teniendo en cuenta que no es la altura de los
> aviones comerciales de pasajeros, del Ejército o de
> otros usos oficiales, no hay altas montañas, ni
> turbulencias, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias
> que influyan decisivamente en la navegación. Se
> trata de zonas muy similares en toda España, donde
> los únicos espacios restringidos para esta
> práctica son los parques naturales, zonas
> militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y también
> está prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.
> >
> > Así, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en
> un día meteorológicamente adecuado para este
> deporte, tal como explica el director de
> competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora, Antonio
> Coco, quien además pertenece al de aeroestación
> (vuelo en globo) y practica el vuelo en ultraligero.
> >
> > Antonio Coco rechaza pronunciarse sobre las
> posibles causas del accidente por mera prudencia,
> pero sí conocía a una de las víctimas del
> accidente J.G.G. y sabe que tenía experiencia de
> vuelo: sólo el ultraligero que se supone que
> pilotaba tenía cuarenta horas de vuelo, luego al
> menos con el 'Squal' ya había practicado un tiempo
> considerable en este tipo de aparatos, sin contar
> las que hubiera hecho con otros. Desde luego,
> disponía del título de vuelo deportivo que expide
> Aviación Civil, tras las correspondientes pruebas
> teóricas y prácticas.
> >
> > Del mismo modo, tal como señaló otro aficionado,
> Carlos Martín, el aparato era un modelo nuevo,
> «con uno de los mejores motores del mercado». El
> 'Squal', es una avioneta rápida, que entra en
> pérdida (desciende) a menos de cien kilómetros por
> hora. Este tipo de ultraligeros tienen una
> autonomía de vuelo de hasta dos horas, en función
> de la atmósfera, de la dirección del aire, del
> peso o del número de pasajeros.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 03-10-03
> >
> >
> >
> > Un policía local y un rumano mueren al
> estrellarse con su U.L.M. (Escual) en Tortosa.
> >
> >
> >
> > El aparato se precipitó sobre un camino y sus dos
> ocupantes fallecieron en el acto.
> >
> > Dos personas mueren al estrellarse, hacia las 13
> horas, el ultraligero con el que sobrevolaban el
> término municipal de Tortosa (Tarragona).
> > Los fallecidos han sido identificados como Josep
> Maria Sánchez, de 41 años y nacionalidad
> española, y C.V, de 40 años y nacionalidad rumana.
> El ultraligero, pilotada por Sánchez, que era
> policía local en Tortosa, ha caído sobre el camino
> del Igallo de Xies, cerca de la carretera C-12, por
> causas que todavía se desconocen.
> > La investigación está a cargo de agentes de la
> Guardia Civil, que ya se han puesto en contacto con
> la Dirección General de Aviación Civil para
> obtener más datos sobre el aparato para poder
> instruir diligencias.
> > Al parecer, las dos víctimas, cuya relación
> entre ambos se desconoce, viajaban en una antigua
> avioneta transformada en ultraligero, según fuentes
> de la Guardia Civil. Josep Maria Sánchez, vecino de
> Roquetes, casado y con tres hijas, según han
> comentado algunos de sus conocidos, se había
> construido en los últimos tiempos su propia
> avioneta.
> > Las condiciones meteorológicas hoy en las Tierras
> del Ebro son buenas, luce el sol y no sopla el
> viento. Hasta el lugar de los hechos se han
> trasladado efectivos de la Guardia Civil, Mossos
> d'Esquadra, Policía Local y Bomberos, así como el
> juez de guardia de Tortosa que ha procedido, hacia
> las tres de la tarde, al levantamiento de los
> cadáveres para su traslado hasta el tanatorio de
> Tortosa.
> >
> >
> >
> > 20-10-03
> >
> > Accidente de un Escual en Moiá, Barcelona.
> >
> > El piloto, Francisco Velasco y su acompañante, un
> hombre de nacionalidad finlandesa, fallecieron al
> estrellarse el ultraligero en el que viajaban sobre
> un campo de golf.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141359#141359
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
>
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