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Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

I've been reading the archives and otherwise trying to figure out a good 

approach to replacing the stock valve.  Generally seems like a good 

idea.  But many options exist and several approaches taken.



Purchasing the valve - direct from the factory I can get exactly what I 

want in a few weeks if I only knew for sure

                                - Vans but with a fuel return and 

possibly other options not needed for the IO540

                                - Neal?

I think I can cobble together an order or select an available valve 

after some more research but I'd welcome recommendations.  Seems like 

everyone learned something after they made their decisions that would 

point to some modification if doing it again.



I've seen Tim's and  Deem's pages (Thanks again!) and  the Aeroquip 

hoses sound great.  Anyone else have photos.



Bill "switching tasks everyday but with great joy" Watson

Durham NC

#40605

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

I'd start with Neal first, and see what he can do.  Then, if that

fails, just go straight to Andair and take the pain, but do a web

order for what you need.  Order a foot of the valve extension

material.  Once you figure what valve you need, and the

fittings on it, and get the extension, the rest isn't really

too bad to figure out on your own with the parts in your

hands.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

MauleDriver wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I've been reading the archives and otherwise trying to figure out a good 

 approach to replacing the stock valve.  Generally seems like a good 

 idea.  But many options exist and several approaches taken.

 

 Purchasing the valve - direct from the factory I can get exactly what I 

 want in a few weeks if I only knew for sure

                                - Vans but with a fuel return and 

 possibly other options not needed for the IO540

                                - Neal?

 I think I can cobble together an order or select an available valve 

 after some more research but I'd welcome recommendations.  Seems like 

 everyone learned something after they made their decisions that would 

 point to some modification if doing it again.

 

 I've seen Tim's and  Deem's pages (Thanks again!) and  the Aeroquip 

 hoses sound great.  Anyone else have photos.

 

 Bill "switching tasks everyday but with great joy" Watson

 Durham NC

 #40605

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

I agree with Tim, this is exactly how I did it, even though I needed a

duplex valve with the return lines. I called Neal and he said to go

direct for the duplex valves and extensions. One caveat though is that

if you want two 90's so you can come in from each wing root without

crossing you will want Andairs new 90 degree elbow built in, they are on

the accessory page and you will have to call to get them rather than

just using the auto configure tool. If you go the auto configure route

you have to use two females and put in two 90 degree elbows and this

makes the valve to wide to fit in the tunnel, but if you use their new

built in fitting they fit with plenty of room left over.

Dan

N289DT RV10E flying 



--

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

I've been running the auto-configure tool and it looks like they added 

the 90deg elbows to it.  So what I end up with is (2) built in 90deg 

elbows, exiting the FS20x7 at 45deg angle forward, then with end of the 

elbow angling 45 deg rearward.   It still sticks out a ways, so  I'm 

going down to check the clearance now.



 I'm thinking that the custom version that ZackRv8 posted pictures of 

where the 90deg elbows are pointing downward along with the feed line to 

the engine might be optimal from a width perspective.  But the depth 

issue is not clear to me at all yet.  With the extension, I understand 

you want it low enough to allow the 2" SCAT to fit on top, and I guess 

high enough not to interfere with the elevator pushrod and stuff.  Just 

not clear on the total picture yet.



Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

[quote] 



 I agree with Tim, this is exactly how I did it, even though I needed a

 duplex valve with the return lines. I called Neal and he said to go

 direct for the duplex valves and extensions. One caveat though is that

 if you want two 90's so you can come in from each wing root without

 crossing you will want Andairs new 90 degree elbow built in, they are on

 the accessory page and you will have to call to get them rather than

 just using the auto configure tool. If you go the auto configure route

 you have to use two females and put in two 90 degree elbows and this

 makes the valve to wide to fit in the tunnel, but if you use their new

 built in fitting they fit with plenty of room left over.

 Dan

 N289DT RV10E flying 



 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Surprisingly, I didn't find clearance to be an issue with the elevator

pushrod stuff.  Having it down low enough for the SCAT tubing is

very nice though.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

MauleDriver wrote:

[quote] 

 

 I've been running the auto-configure tool and it looks like they added 

 the 90deg elbows to it.  So what I end up with is (2) built in 90deg 

 elbows, exiting the FS20x7 at 45deg angle forward, then with end of the 

 elbow angling 45 deg rearward.   It still sticks out a ways, so  I'm 

 going down to check the clearance now.

 

 I'm thinking that the custom version that ZackRv8 posted pictures of 

 where the 90deg elbows are pointing downward along with the feed line to 

 the engine might be optimal from a width perspective.  But the depth 

 issue is not clear to me at all yet.  With the extension, I understand 

 you want it low enough to allow the 2" SCAT to fit on top, and I guess 

 high enough not to interfere with the elevator pushrod and stuff.  Just 

 not clear on the total picture yet.

 

 

 

 Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

> 

> <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

>

> I agree with Tim, this is exactly how I did it, even though I needed a

> duplex valve with the return lines. I called Neal and he said to go

> direct for the duplex valves and extensions. One caveat though is that

> if you want two 90's so you can come in from each wing root without

> crossing you will want Andairs new 90 degree elbow built in, they are on

> the accessory page and you will have to call to get them rather than

> just using the auto configure tool. If you go the auto configure route

> you have to use two females and put in two 90 degree elbows and this

> makes the valve to wide to fit in the tunnel, but if you use their new

> built in fitting they fit with plenty of room left over.

> Dan

> N289DT RV10E flying

> --

n8zg(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Weeeell...dernit....what's a feller to do.



For the record - I was selling valves at my cost as a service to our

community.  I quit handling Andair products because Van's started selling

valves cheaper than I could buy them, and I had to eat a case of $225

valves.  



I'd like nothing more than to renew my relationship with Andair.  In the

last week I've had enough inquiries to warrant consideration.  Ultimately,

it's up to y'all.  I haven't checked lately, but given the current exchange

rate, I expect base valves are going to run upwards of $240.  Extensions add

about $75.  Tack on international shipping (not cheap) and USPS ($6) - last

time I ordered, it cost me over $100 to ship a shoe box full of valves from

England to Alabama.



I'll need to place orders of AT LEAST 12 units at a time to make it worth

Andy's trouble.  



If y'all are willing:

I'll handle ONE valve style - FS20X7-T.

I'll try to keep a few extension kits and extra inlet fittings on hand.   

If our rotary or Sube friends want duplex valves, we'll work that out, too.

IT WILL NOT BE FAST - but you WILL get what you asked for.

The price WILL fluctuate with the exchange rate.



I have no intention or interest in making a buck off of this offer.  Valves

will cost you a few pennies more that it costs me to drop one at the Post

Office.  (Meaning, that if it costs me $200 to buy the valve, $120 to ship a

dozen from England, and $6.50 to put a stamp on it, I'll ask for $220.

Insurance costs a little more, UPS costs a lot more.)



I'll contact Andair in the next few days and see what we can work out.  



In the mean time, if you'd like an Andair FS20X7-T valve, send a note direct

to ( neal at appaero.com ).  If you want an extension, say so.  Be prepared

to write a check - I simply don't have the cash on hand to front a $3000+

order.   

Neal E. George

2023 Everglades Drive

Navarre, FL 32566

Home - 850-515-0640

Cell - 850-218-4838



--

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Well Neal, if you do it, we will come. 



However, I think the critical element is a well documented installation 

diagram using the specific valve configuration (FS20X7-T) you would be 

selling. 



As you know, I'm one of the people fishing around for an Andair valve.  

I just configured and ordered a:

EFS20b7T,3/8 Type 7 Extension Fuel Selector :,6 Inch Ext. Tube (at) gbp 

195.99 = gbp 195.99



My order is based on the best solution I could come up with based on 

input from several people on the site (sort of including you).  The 

input made it clear that several people have used different 

configurations to support different installations with varying degrees 

of,  but eventual success.  If someone had a well documented successful  

installation with a specific valve configuration and you offered it, I 

would be all over it.  And I would guess that many of those builders 

coming behind me would do the same.



Philosophy switch on: Homebuilding gives so many things to so many 

people.  You can design an aircraft from scratch,  you can build one 

from plans and create your own, personal version of someone's dream you 

can build from a materials kit and learn in-depth building skills, you 

can do  a quick build kit and ..... etc.  I consider my RV10 project to 

be an effort to build a build a $500K aircraft for $150K and a lot of 

sweat equity.  The final result will be a state of the art 4 place 

personal transportation machine that will be so satisfying to operate 

that I pinching myself while writing this.  But in building this dream 

machine, I'm trying to take maximum advantage of the QB offeriing, 

standard powerplant, and off-the-shelf avionics.  And in the same vein, 

I'm looking for every bit of help I can get in solving all of the 

little  design  and fabrication challenges inherent in this, perhaps the 

most evolved homebuilt design available.  There's pride in solving some 

of these problems personally.  But the greatest pride is in just 

completing the project with all personal transportation goals achieved.  

Give me a good solution and a product to go with it, I'm buying it.

Philosophy switch off.



In the meantime, I'm puttering around in the Maule doing just fine while 

dreaming of doing so much better.  Nice writeup Tim!



Neal George wrote:

[quote] 



 Weeeell...dernit....what's a feller to do.



 For the record - I was selling valves at my cost as a service to our

 community.  I quit handling Andair products because Van's started selling

 valves cheaper than I could buy them, and I had to eat a case of $225

 valves.  



 I'd like nothing more than to renew my relationship with Andair.  In the

 last week I've had enough inquiries to warrant consideration.  Ultimately,

 it's up to y'all.  I haven't checked lately, but given the current exchange

 rate, I expect base valves are going to run upwards of $240.  Extensions add

 about $75.  Tack on international shipping (not cheap) and USPS ($6) - last

 time I ordered, it cost me over $100 to ship a shoe box full of valves from

 England to Alabama.



 I'll need to place orders of AT LEAST 12 units at a time to make it worth

 Andy's trouble.  



 If y'all are willing:

 I'll handle ONE valve style - FS20X7-T.

 I'll try to keep a few extension kits and extra inlet fittings on hand.   

 If our rotary or Sube friends want duplex valves, we'll work that out, too.

 IT WILL NOT BE FAST - but you WILL get what you asked for.

 The price WILL fluctuate with the exchange rate.



 I have no intention or interest in making a buck off of this offer.  Valves

 will cost you a few pennies more that it costs me to drop one at the Post

 Office.  (Meaning, that if it costs me $200 to buy the valve, $120 to ship a

 dozen from England, and $6.50 to put a stamp on it, I'll ask for $220.

 Insurance costs a little more, UPS costs a lot more.)



 I'll contact Andair in the next few days and see what we can work out.  



 In the mean time, if you'd like an Andair FS20X7-T valve, send a note direct

 to ( neal at appaero.com ).  If you want an extension, say so.  Be prepared

 to write a check - I simply don't have the cash on hand to front a $3000+

 order.   

 Neal E. George

 2023 Everglades Drive

 Navarre, FL 32566

 Home - 850-515-0640

 Cell - 850-218-4838



 --

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Neal was good to me. Don't forget to order the extension kit! 



There are several Andair install photos under the "Fuse" link here: 

http://www.brinkmeyers.net/AirplaneBuilding.htm



Regards,

Jay



___________________________[quote][b]

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Thanks Jay.  Those pics are a lot of help.  I canceled my order pending 

a bit more research into configuration and availability.



I intend to configure the same model you installed.   It appears to be 

the same one that  Neal sold and recommends.

It looks like 6" of extension is more than enough.  Do you agree?

Is that the extension with the universal joint?  Or just a straight 

extension?  (I'm thinking <6" straight extension w/o ujoint is what I need)



I'm going to check with A/C Spruce and Vans regarding their stock to see 

if they have the configuration that Neal was selling including the 

extension.  If not, I'm going back to Andair....



.. unless Neal decides to try another batch buy.  No urgent hurry here, 

I realize it may take weeks.  So I can join in if Neal decides to do it.



Bill "jumping from brakes, rudders and fuel lines" Watson

Durham NC - #40605



Jay Brinkmeyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Neal was good to me. Don't forget to order the extension kit!



 There are several Andair install photos under the "Fuse" link here:

 http://www.brinkmeyers.net/AirplaneBuilding.htm



 Regards,

 Jay



 ___________________________

 *

 *

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Bill,



Why don't you just order the FS 20X7T that Van's offers for $205?  90 degree swing between left and right and  90 degree AN6 ports.  Seems almost a drop in replacement, only you don't have to criss-cross the fuel lines.  You don't even have to lower it and use an extension.



See it here or search for :Fuel Selector Valves":

http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1193417645-34-690&browse=airframe&product=fuel-selector-valve



William

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ 



------

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

William, I was looking at that and talked to them.  I'm right now of the 

opinion that I want the extension and that I want to lower the valve 

body 4 or 5 inches.  That gives the SCAT tubing a clear run and seems to 

avoid any rudder cable, fuel line interference.



The FS20X7T at Vans is a GREAT price and except for the extension, the 

right valve.  It is basically a drop-in replace for the kit supplied 

valve but people seemed to have struggled a bit with the SCAT and rudder 

cable.  I thought that I might be able to pick the valve up from Spruce 

and an extension from ACSpruce.  But Spruce indicates that they only 

sell the extension with a valve.  The Andair site makes it clear there 

is an A and B type valve - only the B will accept the extension.  And, 

adding an extension to a B is a bit more than just inserting a piece of 

rod.  Andair will sell an extension kit for a B model but by the time 

you get done, you are within $75 of just ordering the whole thing  from 

the factory.



I'm agonizing here a bit but the recently reported problems with the kit 

valve pushed me over the edge to get the Andair.  And once there, I'm 

trying to get it as right as I can without recreating the same problems 

others have had.



The frugal decision seems to be to use the kit valve

The crafty decision would be to get the Vans valve and solve the minor 

tunnel space issues

The do it as right as I can figure and damn the cost decision seems to 

be just order the thing from the factory.



Did someone say 'budget'?



William Curtis wrote:

[quote] 



 Bill,



 Why don't you just order the FS 20X7T that Van's offers for $205?  90 degree swing between left and right and  90 degree AN6 ports.  Seems almost a drop in replacement, only you don't have to criss-cross the fuel lines.  You don't even have to lower it and use an extension.



 See it here or search for :Fuel Selector Valves":

 http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1193417645-34-690&browse=airframe&product=fuel-selector-valve



 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ 



 ------

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Seems the path of least resistance is to use the Vans offering and route the rear cabin heat via the original path.  With the input fuel lines 90 degrees apart and the center output port, you should also be able to route the rear heater cable through those lines also as an option.



William

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ 



------

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

Bill,

Don't sweat it too hard.  The valve was something that I originally

reworked and wanted better.  The FS20X7T valve should be an easy

one to fit, and the other andair valve, even with it's tight clearance

to the rudder cables isn't all that bad to fit either.  Once you get

the parts, you'll see that it really isn't a big deal at all, and

that it should go together very well.  Heck, you've even FLOWN

in a plane with the whole andair valve installed....so you even get

the ease of mind to know that it indeed works.  Once you get the parts,

and stuff them in, it'll be just like all the problems when you first

started the empennage....all a thing of the past.

It's just...a...valve, and it's a very nice valve, with very good

positive detents and prevention from accidentally turning it off.

No, it's not the cheapest solution, but of the choices you have, I

believe firmly that it's the best solution, even if others are fine

too.  The Cirrus uses that valve too, from what I understand.  A couple

months from now you'll look back and laugh that you even stressed

that much.  I know how you feel...ever time I had to make a choice

that I thought was huge, I sweated every detail.  In the end, yeah,

it paid off, but I sure wasted a lot of time on it. You have the luck

of being able to have many examples to look at of people ahead of you.

I think you'll be happy in the end, knowing you got the best in

fuel valve safety you could do.  Plumbing it will not be a big

deal at all....especially if you use flexible lines.  Those are

another item I really like how they turned out.

It's too bad you can't be here during inspection time to put your

hands on all these things and see how it all goes together, but

again, you'll be happy in the end.

You may need to come on over for another shot of "motivation" by

burning some 100LL. 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

MauleDriver wrote:

[quote] 

 William, I was looking at that and talked to them.  I'm right now of the 

 opinion that I want the extension and that I want to lower the valve 

 body 4 or 5 inches.  That gives the SCAT tubing a clear run and seems to 

 avoid any rudder cable, fuel line interference.

 The FS20X7T at Vans is a GREAT price and except for the extension, the 

 right valve.  It is basically a drop-in replace for the kit supplied 

 valve but people seemed to have struggled a bit with the SCAT and rudder 

 cable.  I thought that I might be able to pick the valve up from Spruce 

 and an extension from ACSpruce.  But Spruce indicates that they only 

 sell the extension with a valve.  The Andair site makes it clear there 

 is an A and B type valve - only the B will accept the extension.  And, 

 adding an extension to a B is a bit more than just inserting a piece of 

 rod.  Andair will sell an extension kit for a B model but by the time 

 you get done, you are within $75 of just ordering the whole thing  from 

 the factory.

 I'm agonizing here a bit but the recently reported problems with the kit 

 valve pushed me over the edge to get the Andair.  And once there, I'm 

 trying to get it as right as I can without recreating the same problems 

 others have had.

 The frugal decision seems to be to use the kit valve

 The crafty decision would be to get the Vans valve and solve the minor 

 tunnel space issues

 The do it as right as I can figure and damn the cost decision seems to 

 be just order the thing from the factory.

 Did someone say 'budget'?

 William Curtis wrote:

> 

>

> Bill,

>

> Why don't you just order the FS 20X7T that Van's offers for $205?  90 

> degree swing between left and right and  90 degree AN6 ports.  Seems 

> almost a drop in replacement, only you don't have to criss-cross the 

> fuel lines.  You don't even have to lower it and use an extension.

>

> See it here or search for :Fuel Selector Valves":

> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1193417645-34-690&browse=airframe&product=fuel-selector-valve 

> William

> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

> ------

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve - current sources?

I purchased my valve from Neal and thankfully he knew all the parts that

were needed for the extension. I probably would have ended up ordering crap

I didn't need. I attached I pic of my extension setup. 



Steven dinieri

Iflyrv10.com

capsteve(at)adelphia.net

716.579.5790



William, I was looking at that and talked to them.  I'm right now of the

opinion that I want the extension and that I want to lower the valve body 4

or 5 inches.  That gives the SCAT tubing a clear run and seems to avoid any

rudder cable, fuel line interference.



The FS20X7T at Vans is a GREAT price and except for the extension, the right

valve.  It is basically a drop-in replace for the kit supplied valve but

people seemed to have struggled a bit with the SCAT and rudder cable.  I

thought that I might be able to pick the valve up from Spruce and an

extension from ACSpruce.  But Spruce indicates that they only sell the

extension with a valve.  The Andair site makes it clear there is an A and B

type valve - only the B will accept the extension.  And, adding an extension

to a B is a bit more than just inserting a piece of rod.  Andair will sell

an extension kit for a B model but by the time you get done, you are within

$75 of just ordering the whole thing  from the factory.



I'm agonizing here a bit but the recently reported problems with the kit

valve pushed me over the edge to get the Andair.  And once there, I'm trying

to get it as right as I can without recreating the same problems others have

had.



The frugal decision seems to be to use the kit valve The crafty decision

would be to get the Vans valve and solve the minor tunnel space issues The

do it as right as I can figure and damn the cost decision seems to be just

order the thing from the factory.



Did someone say 'budget'?

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