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dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: Airplane jacking, nose gear removal |
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I'm definitely bummed that I need to take the nose gear apart again to
install the new shorter fork and... have to pay for shipping, new fork, etc.
when the airplane hasn't even flown yet!!! But...having taken some flight
time with Mike Seager and having had some difficulty getting the flare just
right on landing, I feel that this would add some additional safety margin
and is worth while to do before first flight. Now I just need to find a way
to jack and hold the front end of the airplane up for a few weeks (?months?)
while I send the gear leg in for shortening. Any ideas?
And..even though it's a moot point now, I think Van's making that a
MANDATORY service bulletin was a crock. The RV-6A has been around for 20
years now and this is the first we hear of this "problem". Yes I think it's
a good thing to do for safety and piece of mind. But many pilots have done
first flights without experiencing the nose over. If I had many hours in
my RV without incident I'd be pretty upset about having to pay a bunch of
money for a non problem. Van is basically voiding every RV nose dragger's
insurance policy until this is fixed. Although it won't be difficult or
time consuming for Langair machining to cut off my gear leg, there is going
to be a huge run on these things and until the backlog clears, we are all
going to be grounded! That sucks!!!
Dean
RV-6A N197DM
closer to 1st flight.
________________ Original Message ______________
Time: 07:53:15 PM PST US
From: Jeff Dowling <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Factory recall gear leg
Why is it our responsibility to pay for a design flaw? Could you
imagine what would happen to Ford?
Shemp
do not archive
John Fasching wrote:
| Quote: | Where is the web site that has the description of the 'box' they
desire you to use to send your gear leg to Lange for shortening?
thanks
*
*
|
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 09:48:20 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Airpax Circuit Breaker/Switches
From: mikerv6a(at)ao.com
Airpax was acquired by Sensata this year.
Product and source information is available at:
http://www.airpax.net/
Mike
| Quote: | I purchased a number of Airpax circuit breaker/switches from a vendor at
Oshkosh and have used them successfully in my rv-4 for 15 years. Recently
one has failed (my strobe light can only be turned off with the master
switch now). Does anyone know of a source for these items?
Thanks,
Ivan Haecker -4 1430hrs. S. Cen. TX
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acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: Airplane jacking, nose gear removal |
|
|
I didn't think there was such a thing as "mandatory" (ie, airworthiness
directives) service bulletins on experimentals. Granted, it might not
be a bad idea to comply, but I always thought these sorts of things were
left up to the aircraft manufacturer (builder)...not the designer.
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm definitely bummed that I need to take the nose gear apart again to
install the new shorter fork and... have to pay for shipping, new fork, etc.
when the airplane hasn't even flown yet!!! But...having taken some flight
time with Mike Seager and having had some difficulty getting the flare just
right on landing, I feel that this would add some additional safety margin
and is worth while to do before first flight. Now I just need to find a way
to jack and hold the front end of the airplane up for a few weeks (?months?)
while I send the gear leg in for shortening. Any ideas?
And..even though it's a moot point now, I think Van's making that a
MANDATORY service bulletin was a crock. The RV-6A has been around for 20
years now and this is the first we hear of this "problem". Yes I think it's
a good thing to do for safety and piece of mind. But many pilots have done
first flights without experiencing the nose over. If I had many hours in
my RV without incident I'd be pretty upset about having to pay a bunch of
money for a non problem. Van is basically voiding every RV nose dragger's
insurance policy until this is fixed. Although it won't be difficult or
time consuming for Langair machining to cut off my gear leg, there is going
to be a huge run on these things and until the backlog clears, we are all
going to be grounded! That sucks!!!
Dean
RV-6A N197DM
closer to 1st flight.
________________ Original Message ______________
Time: 07:53:15 PM PST US
From: Jeff Dowling <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Factory recall gear leg
Why is it our responsibility to pay for a design flaw? Could you
imagine what would happen to Ford?
Shemp
do not archive
John Fasching wrote:
>Where is the web site that has the description of the 'box' they
>desire you to use to send your gear leg to Lange for shortening?
>
>thanks
>*
>*
>
>
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 09:48:20 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Airpax Circuit Breaker/Switches
From: mikerv6a(at)ao.com
Airpax was acquired by Sensata this year.
Product and source information is available at:
http://www.airpax.net/
Mike
>I purchased a number of Airpax circuit breaker/switches from a vendor at
>Oshkosh and have used them successfully in my rv-4 for 15 years. Recently
>one has failed (my strobe light can only be turned off with the master
>switch now). Does anyone know of a source for these items?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ivan Haecker -4 1430hrs. S. Cen. TX
>
>
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hooverra(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: Airplane jacking, nose gear removal |
|
|
I just finished removal and packing of my gear leg. Packing is worse
that removal. I put a short padded saw horse under the tail and loaded
it with 3 bags of sand. (I strapped the bags to the tail) The tail
feathers are off until the gear comes back and I move to the airport
which should happen soon.
For packing I used a heavy cardboard tube ~1/4" wall. I cut it at 20
degrees about 10 inches from the end and spliced it back together with
plywood angles screwed inside the tube. The gear leg is a close fit
between the splice plates. the top end is held with a plywood disc with
a hole to fit the leg screwed into the tube.
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jmsears(at)adelphia.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: Airplane jacking, nose gear removal |
|
|
| Quote: | > I didn't think there was such a thing as "mandatory" (ie, airworthiness
> directives) service bulletins on experimentals. Granted, it might not
> be a bad idea to comply, but I always thought these sorts of things were
> left up to the aircraft manufacturer (builder)...not the designer.<<
|
Scott is correct. I've been flying airplanes for about 25 years. I've
owned airplanes for about 21 of those years. I like to hang out with the
mechanics at our airport. I've seen companies like Cessna use the "madatory
SB" many times to cover their butts. Like any other SB, it's up to the
discretion of the owner to comply. Until it's an AD, there is no such thing
as mandatory. Otherwise, the aircraft industry would have our family jewels
in a vice and be making big profits on parts to cover all the madatory
service bulletins they could dream up. It would cripple the aircraft
owners. Many of us are almost there, now. Fortunately, the FAA controls
ADs and has input from more than the manufacturers. That has saved entire
fleets of aircraft from being grounded permanently.
I look at Van's Aircraft's new "mandatory" service bulletins the same way.
They've been looking at the accident reports and decided to upgrade the nose
gear to give increased ground to fork clearance in hopes that might keep
down folded gear accidents. They've made at least two, maybe more, design
changes on the nose gear to cover nose gear related incidents. Now, their
lawyers have probably said if it's good for the newer models, why not make
it really safe for yourselves by making it "mandatory" so that the older kit
owners will be scared into complying? That really sucks; but, that's how it
is, today. You don't have to comply unless you think it's something that
will improve the product for you. It's a service bulletin, not an AD. I do
suggest that you give serious thought to your situation, though. Don't not
comply because I said it's OK not to. You may need to comply to make the
airplane safer for you.
I have a 1999 RV-6A that has had at least two, maybe up to four, SBs on the
nose gear. One was to replace the nose gear because cracks were showing up
at the entry point to the gear mount. Now, we have this "mandatory" service
bulletin. I did not comply with the first one because I knew the Van's demo
RV-6A had hundreds more landings than mine and didn't have the problem with
cracks. I check it each year, as my way of complying with the SB. If I
ever see cracks, I'll comply. I check the fork, as well. In fact, it's a
good idea to take the fork off and clean it inside the bushing area, anyway.
It gets pretty nasty in there from moisture. I learned that from my days as
a Grumman-American Cheetah owner.
Unfortunately, Van's Aircraft can't can't prevent nose gear accidents from
happening. There are pilots who are determined to break nose gears. I've
seen them on Cessnas, Grumman-Americans, and RVs. Grumman-Americans had a
reputation for broken nose gears. My own Grumman-American Cheetah had a
nose gear failure before I bought it. In the nine years I owned it, I never
had a problem with it. My most recent experience with seeing one was an
Eviktor LSA aircraft which a student clobbered on a hard nose gear landing.
In each incident, it could be shown that the pilot was the problem, not the
design. It's a known fact that one is not supposed to land on the nose
gear.
I land my RV on hard surface and grass. My buddy's grass strip is pretty
nice; but, it has a few lumps in it that my nose gear can catch, from time
to time. When it does, I get to ride out a bounce back into the air. Some
of those have been pretty hard. I still fail to find cracks, anywhere. I
think it would take a pretty brutal nose gear landing to cause the damage
the SB is trying to prevent. We have some folks out there who can do that.
When I sold my Cheetah to a friend of mine, he sold his two place Grumman to
an older gentleman who seemed rough on anything he touched. That was my
first and only observation of the man. On his way home, he took out the
nose gear. My observation was correct. Not long after that, he and his
friend totalled a nice little C150. Unfortunately, they totalled themselves
with it. Neither needed to be PICs of anything.
Like all the other service bulletins that have come from Van's, I'll comply
in my own way. I'll watch the nose gear assembly for cracks, etc. and keep
flying with the one I have. If it ever becomes an AD, one that I'll have to
create as the manufacturer of that aircraft, I'll comply with it as written,
for sure. As for you, the simple thing may be to comply with the SB as
written. Don't let me be the one to sway that decision for you.
One final thing. I really don't like the stance of the newer tri-gear kits.
My -6A has a rakish stance because the main gears let the tail sit lower.
It's easier for my short legs to handle when I get into the airplane. I'm
sure the tall mains were designed into the new kits to cover the nose gear
problem. I admit my RV's nose gear does allow for an easier nose gear first
contact; but, one soon learns the correct flare to prevent that from
happening. I asked about getting shorter mains for my RV-7A kit; but, they
had increased the diameters of the gear legs to allow more gross weight.
The older gear legs would be too loose in the mounts. Oh, well.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317 (Slowly building fuselage)
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:12 am Post subject: Airplane jacking, nose gear removal |
|
|
I think Jim is probably right about Van covering his rear end. On their
website, they have a letter from March 10, 2005 addressing this same
issue. At that time, they believed it was mostly pilot abuse causing
problems. Again, I am not recommending that you comply or not comply.
See http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/letters/nosegear.pdf for the letter
I am referencing. Please especially note their comment first sentence
of paragraph three, but do read the entire note...
do not archive
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Jim Sears wrote:
| Quote: |
>> I didn't think there was such a thing as "mandatory" (ie,
>> airworthiness directives) service bulletins on experimentals.
>> Granted, it might not be a bad idea to comply, but I always thought
>> these sorts of things were left up to the aircraft manufacturer
>> (builder)...not the designer.<<
>
Scott is correct. I've been flying airplanes for about 25 years.
I've owned airplanes for about 21 of those years. I like to hang out
with the mechanics at our airport. I've seen companies like Cessna
use the "madatory SB" many times to cover their butts. Like any other
SB, it's up to the discretion of the owner to comply. Until it's an
AD, there is no such thing as mandatory. Otherwise, the aircraft
industry would have our family jewels in a vice and be making big
profits on parts to cover all the madatory service bulletins they
could dream up. It would cripple the aircraft owners. Many of us are
almost there, now. Fortunately, the FAA controls ADs and has input
from more than the manufacturers. That has saved entire fleets of
aircraft from being grounded permanently.
I look at Van's Aircraft's new "mandatory" service bulletins the same
way. They've been looking at the accident reports and decided to
upgrade the nose gear to give increased ground to fork clearance in
hopes that might keep down folded gear accidents. They've made at
least two, maybe more, design changes on the nose gear to cover nose
gear related incidents. Now, their lawyers have probably said if it's
good for the newer models, why not make it really safe for yourselves
by making it "mandatory" so that the older kit owners will be scared
into complying? That really sucks; but, that's how it is, today. You
don't have to comply unless you think it's something that will improve
the product for you. It's a service bulletin, not an AD. I do
suggest that you give serious thought to your situation, though.
Don't not comply because I said it's OK not to. You may need to
comply to make the airplane safer for you.
|
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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