BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: Flight Suit Discussion |
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52(at)verizon.net>
--> Responded to by: "Mark Bitterlich" <bitterlichmg(at)cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
| Quote: | Hey, this is fun. I can't help but envision RPA events divided into two groups of combatants.
Little guys in nomex fighting big guys in "tea shirts" (whatever they are) who are ripping off
their patches and trying to light their nomex on fire. 
What you do at RPA events is obviously your business and not mine. Not one comment I have ever made was directed at an RPA "event".
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| Quote: | First off, I read the article in the link that was posted which gave no evidence supporting his assertion that
nomex and cotton gave equal protection.
His comment was based on situations where the wearer was covered in fuel and where the flight suit acted as a sponge for that fuel. I have experienced that effect myself, haven't you?
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| Quote: | He seems to think that the only post crash fire scenario involves a fuel-soaked pilot.
This is just not the case. It's not the case in aircraft or in helicopters.
It's more likely in a Yak-50, etc.
so why don't we just forget about them and focus on Yak-52's and CJ6's?
Because I fly a YAK-50. That to me is a darn good reason. Because I have been covered in fuel in flight. That's an even better reason. Because the Sukhoi 26 and the Sukhoi 31 fall into the same category as well (among others).
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| Quote: | A Yak-50 pilot should probably wear additional protection like Gus in his Sukhoi.
Good suggestion.
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| Quote: | Second, your cotton clothing is going to ignite at 482 degrees. In a post crash fire (that doesn't engulf you)
Excuse me. How am I going to be in a post crash fire that does not engulf me?
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| Quote: | it might take you a few seconds to get away from the heat source.
NOMEX will give me 3 seconds. Cottom clothing about 1.5 In just the exact right circumstance... if you ignore odds and statistics and put all your marbles into one very unlikely set of circumstances (at least in MY AIRPLANE).. you could be right.
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| Quote: | You will burst into flames at 482 degrees whereas the guy in the nomex (with patches and cute nametag) will not.
Seems simple to me.
Ok.. I am not going to debate perspective.
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| Quote: | Of course, there are a million scenarios.
And therein lies the full truth of the matter.
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| Quote: | But if it works for the armed services then it works for me.
I became a Marine in 1969, and have served in every war from them until now. I retired in 1990 and continued to serve as a civilian. So.. that's about 36 years and counting. The reason for mentioning the above is very simple. Over that whole period of time the one thing I have learned is to NEVER trust what ANYONE in the Govt. says is "good for me", but to ALWAYS look for a better answer. I mean no personal slight, but I would suggest that you reconsider your opinion in that regard. What "works" for the Armed Services is usually a matter of money, and rarely a matter of what is best.
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| Quote: | And in the interest of promoting safety I don't think we should belittle pilots who wear flight suits
- or trash organizations that enforce the wearing of flight suits.
I agree completely. I only belittle organizations that require flight suits to obtain TRAINING by NON-MEMBERS.
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| Quote: | As much as you hate to admit it a bunch of PHDs and statisticians working for Uncle Sam say it's a good thing.
As much as you may hate to admit it, people who care enough about their own lives to spend their own money on finding out what is best have found out that it (Nomex alone) does very very little and there is a lot better out there if SAFETY is really your main concern. I know a lot of PhD's and statisticians that work for Uncle Sam up close and personal. I'll follow the lead of NASCAR drivers every time over those folks.
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| Quote: | If you can prove otherwise then I'll accept it. If you can't then I won't.
We're not top gun wannabes; we just don't want to burst into flame at 482 degrees.
I don't have to prove anything, and I am not trying to get you to change YOUR habits. Wear what you want, but don't sit there and deny safety of flight training to people because they did not bring a flight suit to a training event.
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Riddle me this:
What are the chances of your flight suit saving you from injury while performing formation flight?
Now... what are the chances of untrained pilots having an accident by trying to learn formation flight on their own, with no one helping them avoid the hazards?
| Quote: | There are a bunch of flight suits on ebay for cheap for any of you that want them. Search on "Flight suit".
You can get a decent used suit for $10 to $15 (might have an ink stain or a rip) - $40 for a premium suit.
The trick is to start bidding about ten seconds before the auction ends.
Scooter.... my previous offer stands. I'll sweeten the pot. You find me ANY military flight suit on EBAY that fits, and I will pay you TWO HUNDRED dollars. I admit... it's a trick. I am so big that you simply will never find one that fits. It has to be custom made. Sorry... that was unfair of me I guess.
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| Quote: | Now, let's be friends, I never called anyone an idiot.
In case there was any confusion... I sincerely apologize... I was calling MYSELF an idiot. Not you!
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I am sure others will agree with my self-description for continuing to discuss this issue. Of course we're friends... I would never think otherwise.
Mark
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