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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Fuel tank sealing |
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I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay recommended to seal up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it partially assembled I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the skin joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see picture). Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be expected gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
Check Dave Clays tanks daves601xl.com, much better design than Zenith's. Nice continuous edge around the rounded edge of the tank rather than squared off edges as well as the splice style attachment of skin to itself on the top rear of the tank. Nice design. Had I known for a fact that I'd be going with the Pro-Seal I'd have used his design from the word go.
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Ron Lendon
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing |
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Andy,
My tanks are welded and the long seam is at the other end from where your seam is. Looking at 6-K-1, dated 08/05, the long seam is up along the top on the surface where the filler neck goes and it rests on cork against the wing spar. It looks like you made the long seam along the upper leading edge of the wing.
The welding was tricky but once I got the 3.5 lenses it got much easier. The arc is so small (27 amps) I needed to magnify it to be able to see what was going on.
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_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/ |
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing |
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I'm working with older plans I guess. Any problem with using the seem where I have it. Is it acceptable even if I use Pro-Seal or the Flame Master stuff the RV guys use to seal the tanks. I have plenty of material to make another couple of tanks, I'd just rather keep moving forward. Also, my welding skills aren't that great nor do I have access to a TIG welder for aluminum, I'd have to pay someone. What do you guys recommend? At the moment, I'm leaning towards rivets and sealing compound but I can easily switch direction on that if pursueded.
Currently I'm in "stop and think about it" mode on this one and am open to ideas to making this tank accessible in the future. I'm going with the 12 gallon tanks. If I need to get to this tank in the wing I'd like it to be as easy as possible. What's the current thinking on two shorter leading edge skins? Is there any good way to make the tank skin accessible with screws rather than rivets? Drilling rivets out isn't great, but even more of a problem is the rivets through the spar cap angle. You drill them out and then you potentially have the back end of the rivet falling into the center section which you really can't get to.
| Ron Lendon wrote: | Andy,
My tanks are welded and the long seam is at the other end from where your seam is. Looking at 6-K-1, dated 08/05, the long seam is up along the top on the surface where the filler neck goes and it rests on cork against the wing spar. It looks like you made the long seam along the upper leading edge of the wing.
The welding was tricky but once I got the 3.5 lenses it got much easier. The arc is so small (27 amps) I needed to magnify it to be able to see what was going on. |
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Trainnut01(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: Fuel tank sealing |
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Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol. Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
[quote][b]
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing |
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Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before I get too far?
Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated. I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier access to the tanks.
The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.". More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together and find another problem.
[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol. Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
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Jaybannist(at)cs.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Fuel tank sealing |
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Andy, What you are seeing on the wing of a Cherokee IS the fuel tank. How's that for access?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before I get too far?
Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated. I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier access to the tanks.
The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.". More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together and find another problem.
[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol. Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing |
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Yeah, I was just looking online at someone's project site about how they spent their summer vacation resealing a wet-wing tank on a Grumman.
I guess the best deal is, make a seperate tank, install it, make the leading edge skins in sections (maybe two sections) and add another access panel under behind the main spar so that if the leading edge skin covering the tank has to come off at least I can vacuum the chips and drilled out pop rivet backs out from behind the main spar.
[quote="Jaybannist(at)cs.com"]Andy, What you are seeing on the wing of a Cherokee IS the fuel tank. How's that for access?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"ashontz" <ashontz> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before I get too far?
Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated. I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier access to the tanks.
The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.". More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together and find another problem.
| Trainnut01(at)aol.com wrote: | Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol. Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
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