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henrysfork1(at)msn.com
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 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: Left Rudder on Kitfox II |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> I fly a model II also and it requires left rudder to compensate for P-factor on roll out and a very slight amount of left rudder in straight and level flight. I have always believed this was what others referred to as adverse yaw. I am sure if that comment is incorrect there will be a dozen guys jump all over this one quick.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
KFM-112 Powered.
Do Not Archive
[quote][b]
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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Left Rudder on Kitfox II |
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Dee sez:
| Quote: | I fly a model II also and it requires left rudder to compensate
for P-factor on roll out and a very slight amount of left rudder in
straight and level flight. I have always believed this was what
others referred to as adverse yaw. I am sure if that comment is
incorrect there will be a dozen guys jump all over this one quick.
|
OK, I'll jump! 
Adverse yaw is what happens when you use aileron (or flaperon!) to
roll into a turn and the outboard (high) wing's drag is greater than
the inboard (low) wing, which causes the nose to try to move in the
opposite direction of the turn. This has nothing to do with P-factor
or engine torque.
A small ground-adjustable tab on the rudder is simple to make and can
take care of any need for rudder pressure when straight and level.
You'll still have to use rudder for takeoff/climb and in descents
and, of course, when turning due to the adverse yaw.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Left Rudder on Kitfox II |
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On Dec 2, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Dee Young wrote:
| Quote: | I have always believed this was what others referred to as adverse yaw.
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There must be a difference, Dee, otherwise how could glider pilots
experience adverse yaw? My understanding is that the latter comes from
the fact that the downward aileron offers greater drag than the upward
one, thus inducing a yaw moment in the opposite direction of the
desired turn. Adverse yaw is counterbalanced by asymmetrical ailerons,
which is something my model 3 doesn't have.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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henrysfork1(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Left Rudder on Kitfox II |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Thanks
[quote] ---
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: Left Rudder on Kitfox II |
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Dee:
It is yaw and it is adverse… but you are right it isn’t adverse yaw.
Adverse yaw is created when a down moving aileron gives drag to one wing before lifting it. This makes the plane yaw away from the direction of the turn as the aileron is being applied. The correction, don’t try this, is to bend the aileron bell cranks in such a way that one aileron only travels down a fraction of what the other one travels up. Some planes, like the avid have aftermarket bell cranks that come close to eliminating adverse yaw. I don’t know if John McBean has an aftermarket crank for the ‘Fox.
The yaw we are getting is caused by the air coming from the prop swirling corkscrew fashion over the fuselage of the plane. Also there is the problem of the prop not hitting the air in an asymmetrical fashion. With the 582 and the blade turning clockwise from the pilot seat the pitch of the blade on the left side (moving down) is coarser than the pitch on the right side (moving up) when the nose is pointed up. That is known as P factor. “P” for power. The more power applied to the prop from the engine and the higher the nose of the plane, the more counter rudder is required to correct it. I use a small fixed trim tab on my rudder. This is a draggy answer and wouldn’t be a good fix for a faster plane. Most certified planes have the vertical stab and strake offset on the front into the swirl of air from the prop which for all intents and purposes corrects P factor at certain power settings/attitudes.
The 172 I trained in could almost be flown without the rudder at all except when taking off and climbing a little right rudder was required to counteract the P factor. Landing was the same with less effect. As I would flare I found myself adding just a bit of right rudder at the flare.
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C835A6.BCC54FB0[/img]
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 1:51 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Left Rudder on Kitfox II
I fly a model II also and it requires left rudder to compensate for P-factor on roll out and a very slight amount of left rudder in straight and level flight. I have always believed this was what others referred to as adverse yaw. I am sure if that comment is incorrect there will be a dozen guys jump all over this one quick.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
KFM-112 Powered.
Do Not Archive
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Noel Loveys
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Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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