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drc(at)wscare.com
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 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: Heating |
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i have added the heat pads to the Yak 52 and the 55. The company is EZ Heat in Chetek, WI http://www.e-zheat.com/The model 540 is a 2 pad system for the oil tank and the model ?154 is for the sump. With both plugged in and a blanket over the cowl - I had to move the 55 about 100NM flight yesterday. Surface temp 7 degrees F with wind blowing 15 gusts 24 and light snow. I preped the plane in the hanger ( the cowl and the engine itself was quite warm) and rolled her out then cranked within 5 mins. Within 5-10 mins the CHTs were 180 degress and the oil temp was 60 degrees. The pads really work well and with the heat they put out at a constant rate I would be concerned about condensation. I am very happy with the units. If I keep the Wilga they will go on there also.
The cost was about 280$ for the pads.
Herb
On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
Hi Jan,
| Quote: | 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
|
"spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I
personally turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4
times, pull the prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3
times; the engine usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades
(three-bladed prop).
I've read some negative comments about directly heating oil with a
device that actually goes into the oil itself to heat it. As memory
serves, it had something to do with condensation. I can't swear to that
though! Personally I use electric heating "pads" that are placed on the
exterior of the oil tank and heat the whole tank. I do not have one,
but if you were to do this the RIGHT way, you'd also add one of these
pads to the engine oil sump, and if you were REALLY concerned, put one
somehow on the oil cooler. In North Carolina it simply never gets that
cold really, so I have been fine with just heating the oil tank itself.
Oil in cylinders when it is cold is a serious problem in that it simply
doesn't want to come out very easily. Especially true as well in the
intake tubes. This seems to be more of a problem in the 50 than the 52
... Due to tilt? Maybe. Anyway, I usually pull about 4-5 blades and
then prime a little simply because the gas tends to mix with the oil,
thin it and then allow it to drain out easier. This is a personal
preference and is not based on any expert input. I then pull it through
a whomp more times (as you suggested) then prime the crap out of it
again, pull it through another couple of blades and start. Pretty much
the same sequence as yourself. I have an intake drain kit installed.
When I prime the engine I want to see the extra fuel come out of that
tube. Having that makes it pretty much impossible to over-prime.
| Quote: | 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
|
completely to the front),
Yep.
| Quote: | 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control
|
very slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full
fine) until the proper temperatures are reached.
Ok.
| Quote: | 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
|
the throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50
rolls too fast
Ok
5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
temperatures (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle
up to 70 % for the magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by
pulling back and forth the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with
the Extra 300 that I may fly, the owner asked me to do this prop checks
very quickly because they only have to take away the air bubbles in the
governor; he got this advise when he bought his Extra 300 new from the
factory; I suppose this makes sense for his specific governor
mechanism).
The prop check for the YAK aircraft is different. They want you to set
a certain RPM and then pull the prop lever full aft and see that it
holds a certain RPM. It is not a cycle back and forward, repeat three
times deal, but I can not address which way is better. I will say that
I think you should hold it back to try and get warm oil into the prop
itself and that quick cycling MAY not do that. Again, I really am not
sure.
| Quote: | 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
|
throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
the stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the
plane gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower
the nose, gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM
to 82 % but leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always
have the prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75
throttle or 60/65.
Each person has his or her own method for the above. I really am not
going to say "right or wrong" with anything you say. It obviously works
and I do much the same myself. Especially with the RPM method you just
mentioned.
| Quote: | 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the
|
throttle (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed
(145 to 150 km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for
the numbers, and just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely
idle.
When landing, I always have the prop control full forward. I only put
it there after the gear is down and I am slowed to near approach speed.
THEN I push the prop full forward. Doing it that way keeps the prop
from reversing the load on the thrust bearing, and also has me
completely prepared for a go around.
| Quote: | 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
|
again at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil
for 25 seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the
magneto's and immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my
experience this helps to avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've
seen this on several engines).
I do much the same, but reduce to idle before killing the mags... I
believe your methods are so close to what the book calls for that there
is not reason to concern yourself in any way Jan. Just my 2 cents. -= -- Please Support Your Lists (And Get -Matt Dralle, List - The Yak-List --> &n=====================
[b]
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drc(at)wscare.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: Heating |
|
|
I meant to say "not concerned about condensation"
herb
On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:14 PM, Herb Coussons wrote:
| Quote: | i have added the heat pads to the Yak 52 and the 55. The company is EZ Heat in Chetek, WI http://www.e-zheat.com/The model 540 is a 2 pad system for the oil tank and the model ?154 is for the sump. With both plugged in and a blanket over the cowl - I had to move the 55 about 100NM flight yesterday. Surface temp 7 degrees F with wind blowing 15 gusts 24 and light snow. I preped the plane in the hanger ( the cowl and the engine itself was quite warm) and rolled her out then cranked within 5 mins. Within 5-10 mins the CHTs were 180 degress and the oil temp was 60 degrees. The pads really work well and with the heat they put out at a constant rate I would be concerned about condensation. I am very happy with the units. If I keep the Wilga they will go on there also.
The cost was about 280$ for the pads.
Herb
On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
Hi Jan,
| Quote: | 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
|
"spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I
personally turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4
times, pull the prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3
times; the engine usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades
(three-bladed prop).
I've read some negative comments about directly heating oil with a
device that actually goes into the oil itself to heat it. As memory
serves, it had something to do with condensation. I can't swear to that
though! Personally I use electric heating "pads" that are placed on the
exterior of the oil tank and heat the whole tank. I do not have one,
but if you were to do this the RIGHT way, you'd also add one of these
pads to the engine oil sump, and if you were REALLY concerned, put one
somehow on the oil cooler. In North Carolina it simply never gets that
cold really, so I have been fine with just heating the oil tank itself.
Oil in cylinders when it is cold is a serious problem in that it simply
doesn't want to come out very easily. Especially true as well in the
intake tubes. This seems to be more of a problem in the 50 than the 52
... Due to tilt? Maybe. Anyway, I usually pull about 4-5 blades and
then prime a little simply because the gas tends to mix with the oil,
thin it and then allow it to drain out easier. This is a personal
preference and is not based on any expert input. I then pull it through
a whomp more times (as you suggested) then prime the crap out of it
again, pull it through another couple of blades and start. Pretty much
the same sequence as yourself. I have an intake drain kit installed.
When I prime the engine I want to see the extra fuel come out of that
tube. Having that makes it pretty much impossible to over-prime.
| Quote: | 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
|
completely to the front),
Yep.
| Quote: | 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control
|
very slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full
fine) until the proper temperatures are reached.
Ok.
| Quote: | 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
|
the throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50
rolls too fast
Ok
5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
temperatures (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle
up to 70 % for the magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by
pulling back and forth the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with
the Extra 300 that I may fly, the owner asked me to do this prop checks
very quickly because they only have to take away the air bubbles in the
governor; he got this advise when he bought his Extra 300 new from the
factory; I suppose this makes sense for his specific governor
mechanism).
The prop check for the YAK aircraft is different. They want you to set
a certain RPM and then pull the prop lever full aft and see that it
holds a certain RPM. It is not a cycle back and forward, repeat three
times deal, but I can not address which way is better. I will say that
I think you should hold it back to try and get warm oil into the prop
itself and that quick cycling MAY not do that. Again, I really am not
sure.
| Quote: | 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
|
throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
the stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the
plane gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower
the nose, gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM
to 82 % but leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always
have the prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75
throttle or 60/65.
Each person has his or her own method for the above. I really am not
going to say "right or wrong" with anything you say. It obviously works
and I do much the same myself. Especially with the RPM method you just
mentioned.
| Quote: | 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the
|
throttle (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed
(145 to 150 km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for
the numbers, and just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely
idle.
When landing, I always have the prop control full forward. I only put
it there after the gear is down and I am slowed to near approach speed.
THEN I push the prop full forward. Doing it that way keeps the prop
from reversing the load on the thrust bearing, and also has me
completely prepared for a go around.
| Quote: | 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
|
again at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil
for 25 seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the
magneto's and immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my
experience this helps to avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've
seen this on several engines).
I do much the same, but reduce to idle before killing the mags... I
believe your methods are so close to what the book calls for that there
is not reason to concern yourself in any way Jan. Just my 2 cents. -= -- Please Support Your Lists (And Get -Matt Dralle, List - The Yak-List --> &n=====================
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
[quote][b]
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: Heating |
|
|
Exact same brand as I use, and I highly endorse them as well. Been on
for years now without a problem.
Mark
--
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john(at)johnalber.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Heating |
|
|
To all who are thinking about winter heating issues: there is a thought-provoking article in Aviation Safety this month.
One of the fundamental points of the article is that aircraft engines are built with clearances optimized for room termperature and above. When engines are cold sinked, clearances are reduced to the point that oil will not penetrate and metal to metal contact results. The problem is exacerbated when metals with different expansion rates (e.g. aluminum and steel) are adjacent to each other.
The article discourages hand propping of cold sinked engines, saying that doing so can score metal surfaces and spin bearings that are bound up. By inference, the article also suggests that heating an oil reservoir alone is not enough. The engine will still be cold when it turns over and damage will result.
Over the years, I've used three approaches: EZHeat pads on the oil tank, Red Dragon portable heaters and, currently, a salamander mounted on a high, rolling steel table. I open the gills and point the salamander straight into the engine compartment. I like the salamander the best. It moves a lot of heated air through the engine compartment and warms the oil reservoir, the sump, the cylinders--everything ahead of the firewall. It even warms up the cockpit a little.
I begin to use it at 50 degrees F and below. In the dead of winter, it takes an hour to warm things up nicely. Warms the hangar too.
John
John Alber
john(at)johnalber.com
314-259-2144 [quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Heating |
|
|
Good article. These YAKs are so pampered it is pathetic. Not long ago, I had a picture of a 52 on skis with a smudge pots burning under the noses of the others on the line to warm the engines. This particular picture had two pilots on board with the engine running and the crew chief standing by for taxi form their snow drift. The underside of the cowling was black from soot as was the side of the fuselage blackened from oil. It was painted in the standard DOSAAF colors. Anyone seen that picture lately?
With oil dilution for 0 deg C or worse and smudge pots under their noses’ sitting on the Siberian Tarmac they still started and flew. Tough birds they are!
Mine live in nice warm 45deg F heated hanger ( could be higher temp but) with no exposure to the elements drinking 100 LL fuel. They have to believe they have died and gone to YAK heaven. Why they even get wiped down after every sortie or at least at the end of the flying day so they are always putting their best tire forward for the envious passers-by.
Pampered I tell ya….pampered they are!
Damned these planes are fun!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Alber
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:11 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Heating
To all who are thinking about winter heating issues: there is a thought-provoking article in Aviation Safety this month.
One of the fundamental points of the article is that aircraft engines are built with clearances optimized for room termperature and above. When engines are cold sinked, clearances are reduced to the point that oil will not penetrate and metal to metal contact results. The problem is exacerbated when metals with different expansion rates (e.g. aluminum and steel) are adjacent to each other.
The article discourages hand propping of cold sinked engines, saying that doing so can score metal surfaces and spin bearings that are bound up. By inference, the article also suggests that heating an oil reservoir alone is not enough. The engine will still be cold when it turns over and damage will result.
Over the years, I've used three approaches: EZHeat pads on the oil tank, Red Dragon portable heaters and, currently, a salamander mounted on a high, rolling steel table. I open the gills and point the salamander straight into the engine compartment. I like the salamander the best. It moves a lot of heated air through the engine compartment and warms the oil reservoir, the sump, the cylinders--everything ahead of the firewall. It even warms up the cockpit a little.
I begin to use it at 50 degrees F and below. In the dead of winter, it takes an hour to warm things up nicely. Warms the hangar too.
John
John Alber
john(at)johnalber.com
314-259-2144 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
012345678901234
[quote][b]
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dave(at)davelaird.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: Heating |
|
|
Hi John,
What kind of salamander do you use? Is it fueled by kerosene or
propane? Also, how many BTU's does it generate?
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas (ADS)
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: Heating |
|
|
That’s correct, Doc !
I personnally spend much more time in maintaining and cleaning than flying, and probably I’m not the only one.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: donderdag 6 december 2007 19:44
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Heating
Good article. These YAKs are so pampered it is pathetic. Not long ago, I had a picture of a 52 on skis with a smudge pots burning under the noses of the others on the line to warm the engines. This particular picture had two pilots on board with the engine running and the crew chief standing by for taxi form their snow drift. The underside of the cowling was black from soot as was the side of the fuselage blackened from oil. It was painted in the standard DOSAAF colors. Anyone seen that picture lately?
With oil dilution for 0 deg C or worse and smudge pots under their noses’ sitting on the Siberian Tarmac they still started and flew. Tough birds they are!
Mine live in nice warm 45deg F heated hanger ( could be higher temp but) with no exposure to the elements drinking 100 LL fuel. They have to believe they have died and gone to YAK heaven. Why they even get wiped down after every sortie or at least at the end of the flying day so they are always putting their best tire forward for the envious passers-by.
Pampered I tell ya….pampered they are!
Damned these planes are fun!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Alber
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:11 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Heating
To all who are thinking about winter heating issues: there is a thought-provoking article in Aviation Safety this month.
One of the fundamental points of the article is that aircraft engines are built with clearances optimized for room termperature and above. When engines are cold sinked, clearances are reduced to the point that oil will not penetrate and metal to metal contact results. The problem is exacerbated when metals with different expansion rates (e.g. aluminum and steel) are adjacent to each other.
The article discourages hand propping of cold sinked engines, saying that doing so can score metal surfaces and spin bearings that are bound up. By inference, the article also suggests that heating an oil reservoir alone is not enough. The engine will still be cold when it turns over and damage will result.
Over the years, I've used three approaches: EZHeat pads on the oil tank, Red Dragon portable heaters and, currently, a salamander mounted on a high, rolling steel table. I open the gills and point the salamander straight into the engine compartment. I like the salamander the best. It moves a lot of heated air through the engine compartment and warms the oil reservoir, the sump, the cylinders--everything ahead of the firewall. It even warms up the cockpit a little.
I begin to use it at 50 degrees F and below. In the dead of winter, it takes an hour to warm things up nicely. Warms the hangar too.
John
John Alber
john(at)johnalber.com
314-259-2144 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
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rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Heating |
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|
Dave, John
You should be a bit careful about heating your prop hub as packed grease
will melt and flow out of place if it gets to hot, so proceed carefully.
IMHO
A Easy Heat on the oil cooler, another on the oil tank, foam in the cowl
cheeks and a full cowl blanket which covers the gills and all the way
around and under the cowl should get you by in a unheated hanger unless
the temps get severe. I am not talking about some old blanket your wife
lets you use, I'm talking about a fitted, made for the Yak/CJ cowl
insulated blanket. I have three or four in stock if you need one.
Doug
Dave Laird wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi John,
What kind of salamander do you use? Is it fueled by kerosene or
propane? Also, how many BTU's does it generate?
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas (ADS)
|
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MarkWDavis
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: Heating |
|
|
Doug,
What's your opinion on leaving a small heat source such as 40-60W
light bulb all the time or is it preferable to just heat it up when it's
likely to be started?
Mark Davis
N44YK
---
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rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Heating |
|
|
Mark,
Yes a cowl blanket and a bulb will do the job, but for safety sake use a
high impact bulk. I have not bought one in a while but used to get them
from the auto stores like Napa.
Best,
Doug
Mark Davis wrote:
[quote]
Doug,
What's your opinion on leaving a small heat source such as 40-60W
light bulb all the time or is it preferable to just heat it up when
it's likely to be started?
Mark Davis
N44YK
---
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