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Throttle to carb connection
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DanM

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Kingsburg, Calif.

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

I'm concerned that the method I use to secure the throttle cable to the carburetor  on my Jab 2200 is not sufficient or safe. Need some opinions before I redesign the connection. The throttle cable is connected to an ACS  wire grip, PN 05-16000 which is then connected to the carburetor lever. The systems worked well but I'm concerned  the wire grip may let loose at bad time.  Any advice will be appreciated

_________________
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV
Jabiru 2200 SN 1311 , 59.7 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Hi Dan-

On my installation I used an internally threaded aluminum rod of  

about 3/16" diameter and about 1/2" long, as the connection to the  

carb arm/lever. I did NOT use the questionable stuff that came with  

the engine. I used an Aircraft Spruce vernier throttle control which  

uses a solid wire as the actual link to the carb lever. What the  

3/16" threaded rod does is goes through the carb lever, and allows  

the throttle control wire to pass through it...crossways. The  

internal threads are 8-32, as I recall, threaded all the way through  

the 1/2" long aluminum rod. I then used 8-32 set screws from both  

sides of the rod, and this grips the throttle control wire. I don't  

have any pictures of this at this time...sorry.

I hope I've explained it well enough. It's a pretty simple, but  

effective way of gripping the control wire, and pivots within the  

carb lever as it should. If adjustments are necessary, loosening one  

or both of the set screws will allow for that.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs

On Dec 4, 2007, at 2:55 PM, DanM wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm concerned that the method I use to secure the throttle cable to  

 the carburetor  on my Jab 2200 is not sufficient or safe. Need some  

 opinions before I redesign the connection. The throttle cable is  

 connected to an ACS  wire grip, PN 05-16000 which is then connected  

 to the carburetor lever. The systems worked well but I'm concerned   

 the wire grip may let loose at bad time.  Any advice will be  

 appreciated



 --------

 Dan Mc Intyre

 Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150411#150411

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

valleyairport(at)cotterwe
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Dan,

        I have the wire grip on my Lycoming powered Kitfox. Seventy hours so

far and no signs of it letting go. I am going to use the same system on my

Jab 3300 engine project. To me, the spring that pulls the throttle to full

open is a hazard and will be removed. With no spring pulling there will be

little force applied to the grip/wire junction.



                                                            Jay C.

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

I think I'd rather have the throttle go to WOT and control the plane  

by using the mag switch, than to have to try to find a landing spot  

with no power. What about an over-water broken throttle control?



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs



On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:05 PM, Jay & Beverly wrote:



[quote] 

 <valleyairport(at)cotterweb.com>



 Dan,

         I have the wire grip on my Lycoming powered Kitfox. Seventy  

 hours so

 far and no signs of it letting go. I am going to use the same  

 system on my

 Jab 3300 engine project. To me, the spring that pulls the throttle  

 to full

 open is a hazard and will be removed. With no spring pulling there  

 will be

 little force applied to the grip/wire junction.



                                                             Jay C.

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

DanM

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Kingsburg, Calif.

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Throttle to carb connection

Thanks for the information  guys. Since Jay has been successful with the wire grip, I may not change mine. Lynn, how is the internally threaded rod attached to the carb lever. I can't picture it from your comments. More on my set up, I have a ACS vernier throttle which is connected to ACS wire grip in question, the wire grip is then connected to a rod end which is connected to the carb lever. I might add, the carb lever is special design and built by Dave Jalanti. His design add more throw to carb lever which gives more travel to the vernier throttle thus finer adjustments. Heres some photos of my set up.

P1010004.JPG

Description:

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570 Time(s)

P1010005.JPG

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540 Time(s)

_________________
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV
Jabiru 2200 SN 1311 , 59.7 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Kinda like flying a Sopwith Camel, eh Lynn?

   

  do not archive



Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 



I think I'd rather have the throttle go to WOT and control the plane 

by using the mag switch, than to have to try to find a landing spot 

with no power. What about an over-water broken throttle control?



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs



On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:05 PM, Jay & Beverly wrote:



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay & Beverly" 

 



 Dan,

 I have the wire grip on my Lycoming powered Kitfox. Seventy 

 hours so

 far and no signs of it letting go.  I am going to use the same 

 system on my

 Jab 3300 engine project. To me, the spring that pulls the throttle 

 to full

 open is a hazard and will be removed. With no spring pulling there 

 will be

 little force applied to the grip/wire junction.



 Jay C.

 ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Dan-

I also have the Dave Jalanti-designed lever/arm. I'm going to the  

hangar in about an hour and I'll shoot some pictures of mine...I  

already have the cowl off. As I recall building it, the internally- 

threaded rod has a head (forgot to mention that last night) and it  

slides through the Jalanti arm, with the throttle wire going through  

the cross hole securing the rod from going back through the arm. Then  

the set screws secure the wire to the rod.

I'll get some pics.



Lynn



On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:38 AM, DanM wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for the information  guys. Since Jay has been successful  

 with the wire grip, I may not change mine. Lynn, how is the  

 internally threaded rod attached to the carb lever. I can't picture  

 it from your comments. More on my set up, I have a ACS vernier  

 throttle which is connected to ACS wire grip in question, the wire  

 grip is then connected to a rod end which is connected to the carb  

 lever. I might add, the carb lever is special design and built by  

 Dave Jalanti. His design add more throw to carb lever which gives  

 more travel to the vernier throttle thus finer adjustments. Heres  

 some photos of my set up.



 --------

 Dan Mc Intyre

 Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150562#150562





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010004_182.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010005_846.jpg

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Hey Marco, I'm not THAT old!  : )



Lynn

do not archive

On Dec 5, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:



[quote] Kinda like flying a Sopwith Camel, eh Lynn?



 do not archive



 Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 



 I think I'd rather have the throttle go to WOT and control the plane

 by using the mag switch, than to have to try to find a landing spot

 with no power. What about an over-water broken throttle control?



 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/440+ hrs



 On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:05 PM, Jay & Beverly wrote:



 > 

 >

 >

 > Dan,

 > I have the wire grip on my Lycoming powered Kitfox. Seventy

 > hours so

 > far and no signs of it letting go. I am going to use the same

 > system on my

 > Jab 3300 engine project. To me, the spring that pulls the throttle

 > to full

 > open is a hazard and will be removed. With no spring pulling there

 > will be

 > little force applied to the grip/wire junction.

 >

 > Jay C.

 > ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kcflys

Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 33
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Throttle to carb connection

Dan & Lynn,

Not for sure but Lynn's description sounds a lot like the old VW throttle and heater cable connections.



Do Not Archive.

_________________
Keith C.
kitfox wannabe
C-150
Rancho Cordova CA

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Your installation looks very good, Dan. It sure looks more rugged  

than mine. However, I've got over 400 hours on mine and it hasn't  

given up yet. I tried to find that "grip" device in the Spruce  

catalog, but no such luck.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/440+ hrs



On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:38 AM, DanM wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for the information  guys. Since Jay has been successful  

 with the wire grip, I may not change mine. Lynn, how is the  

 internally threaded rod attached to the carb lever. I can't picture  

 it from your comments. More on my set up, I have a ACS vernier  

 throttle which is connected to ACS wire grip in question, the wire  

 grip is then connected to a rod end which is connected to the carb  

 lever. I might add, the carb lever is special design and built by  

 Dave Jalanti. His design add more throw to carb lever which gives  

 more travel to the vernier throttle thus finer adjustments. Heres  

 some photos of my set up.



 --------

 Dan Mc Intyre

 Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150562#150562





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010004_182.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010005_846.jpg

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Lynn:



I just did the search.  It is called wire grip and is located in page 149 of the ACS catalog.



José



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Thanks, Jose...I went there and nothing, but wandering a little  

further I found it on page 159 of both of my Spruce (ACS?) catalogs... 

2006-2007 and 2007-2008. Do you have an older catalog, or is ACS not  

Aircraft Spruce? I'm not being picky, but I've never been able to  

equate ACS with Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co....the letters just  

don't seem to come out right.



That item seems like a nice way to terminate a control wire.



Lynn



On Dec 5, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:



[quote] 

 <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>



 Lynn:



 I just did the search.  It is called wire grip and is located in  

 page 149 of the ACS catalog.



 José



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Lynn:



AirCraft Spruce.  They sell many parts with the ACS brand.  Two of those are the ignition switch and the gascolator.



I found the wire grip searching on their website.  The pdf I got shows page 149.



I also have the adapter from Dave Jalanti, and have been thinking about doing exactly what you did.  However, the wire grip looks elegant...



Jose



---

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: throttle to carb connection

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

 Here's my 3rd and last attempt at posting pictures


	


Lynn, your photos came through but with extra files. Those extras are the resource part, including thumbnails, from your Macintosh formatting. To avoid that, select your file, press Apple+I, click the thumbnail in the Info window of the file then click Delete.

Your file icon will now be without thumbnail but the file will be smaller and more 'PC-friendly.'



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Do not archive

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

My NSI Subaru uses two of these wire grips, one for the carb heat, and one 

for the mixture control.  They seem to work very well, but you need to keep 

an eye on them.  One thing they do when gripping the wire is they put a 

bunch of little cuts into it from the gripping jaws.  One day when I pulled 

the carb heat knob it came all the way out, not stopping at the usual 3 

inches.  When I later inspected the wire I found that it broke off right at 

the point where the gripping cuts were.  I use good quality Boden Cables 

too.  Not a real big deal for carb heat.



However, the other wire grip on the mixture control is the one that bothers 

me.  If it broke, my mixture would go to full lean which will allow the 

engine to run at cruise rpm and lower, but not at climb power, the worst 

place.  If it broke at this point, it could be a real problem.  I solved 

that by adding a spring to the mixture arm that, if the cable were to break, 

the arm would go to full rich.



My suggestion is that if you use them, don't put one on the throttle cable. 

Not a good place for something that needs to be nearly 100 percent reliable.

There is a better connector for the throttle control and I'll try to find it 

and post to the list.

Deke Morisse

S5/Subaru

NE Michigan



---

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Deke:



This is a very valuable advice.



Thanks!



José Toro




My suggestion is that if you use them (wire grip), don't put one on the throttle cable. 

Not a good place for something that needs to be nearly 100 percent reliable.



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:09 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Here are a couple more options.  The one I'm actually looking for is a small 

ball joint that has built in redundancy.   I know ACS sells it, but I can't 

find it.

Deke

S5, NE Michigan



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/balljoint.php

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/search.php



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Well, we could call it ASS, but I don't think Aircraft Spruce and Specialty 

would be real quick to change their acronym.  

Deke

do not archive

[quote]

 Thanks, Jose...I went there and nothing, but wandering a little  further I 

 found it on page 159 of both of my Spruce (ACS?) catalogs... 2006-2007 and 

 2007-2008. Do you have an older catalog, or is ACS not  Aircraft Spruce? 

 I'm not being picky, but I've never been able to  equate ACS with Aircraft 

 Spruce and Specialty Co....the letters just  don't seem to come out right.

 That item seems like a nice way to terminate a control wire.

 Lynn

 On Dec 5, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:

> 

> <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>

>

> Lynn:

>

> I just did the search.  It is called wire grip and is located in  page 

> 149 of the ACS catalog.

>

> José

>

> ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Actually, they call themselves Aircraft Spruce & Specialty COMPANY,  

so ASSC or ASS Company might work. Come to think of it, ASS Company  

is sometimes very descriptive of how they work, especially in the  

catalog department.



Ok, I'll get on the bandwagon with everybody else and accept ACS, but  

it ruffles my anal feathers to break the word "aircraft" into two  

words....but that's just me.



Lynn

do not archive

On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:11 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] 

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Well, we could call it ASS, but I don't think Aircraft Spruce and  

 Specialty would be real quick to change their acronym.  

 Deke

 do not archive

>

> Thanks, Jose...I went there and nothing, but wandering a little   

> further I found it on page 159 of both of my Spruce (ACS?)  

> catalogs... 2006-2007 and 2007-2008. Do you have an older catalog,  

> or is ACS not  Aircraft Spruce? I'm not being picky, but I've  

> never been able to  equate ACS with Aircraft Spruce and Specialty  

> Co....the letters just  don't seem to come out right.

>

> That item seems like a nice way to terminate a control wire.

>

> Lynn

>

> On Dec 5, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:

>

>> 

>> <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>

>>

>> Lynn:

>>

>> I just did the search.  It is called wire grip and is located in   

>> page 149 of the ACS catalog.

>>

>> José

>>

>> ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Throttle to carb connection

Lynn sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...it ruffles my anal feathers to break the word "aircraft" into two words...


	


Tell your feathers to relax, Lynn.  According to Kiktionary.com 

<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aircraft>, the term comes from a 

"craft" that operates in the "air".  "Air + craft" is the listed 

etymology.



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

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