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Questions re: Z19

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longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: Questions re: Z19

Bob,  

           

1. What type of relay is depicted for the endurance bus alternate feed? Does B & C carry?   

2. Since Z19 is for an electrically dependent engine, it would be great to see the required ignition power included.   

3. Logic question. Why do you associate the main battery bus with the aux/secondary power switch and the engine/aux battery bus with the primary power switch? Somehow that logic seems awkward.  

4. If one has independent control over FP #2, why  not include the same control over FP#1? Ok, #2 is supposed to be a backup, but if I want/need to isolate #1, I would need to switch off both primary and secondary/aux power thus loosing ecu power.  

5. Again, adding the appropriate ignition power to the design changes things as there can be no possibility for isolating power to the ignition in flight (without restarting in flight).  

This would apply not only to Subaru's but many other Aeromotive brands.  

  

Also,  

Do any of your diagrams provide a design for including a clearance switch?   

Thanks     [quote][b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: Questions re: Z19

At 10:14 AM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

1. What type of relay is depicted for the endurance bus alternate feed? 

Does B & C carry?


	


   Yes, S704-1. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704-1l.jpg



   I'll have a solid state version on the website

   shortly



http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/9030s.jpg

 	  Quote: 	
		  2. Since Z19 is for an electrically dependent engine, it would be great to 

see the required ignition power included.


	


   I'm not sure what data I was given when that

   Z-figure was crafted. I'm thinking that the

   redundant ignition (if any) was paired with the

   redundant fuel management systems. If you've

   data that suggests expanded attention for

   the ignition system(s), I'd be pleased to add

   the coverage.

 	  Quote: 	
		  3. Logic question. Why do you associate the main battery bus with the 

aux/secondary power switch and the engine/aux battery bus with the primary 

power switch? Somehow that logic seems awkward.


	


   Call them anything you wish. The goal is to eliminate

   single points of failure for the engine.

 	  Quote: 	
		  4. If one has independent control over FP #2, why  not include the same 

control over FP#1? Ok, #2 is supposed to be a backup, but if I want/need 

to isolate #1, I would need to switch off both primary and secondary/aux 

power thus loosing ecu power.


	


   #2 is a backup for #1. The goal was to offer the

   simplest and most independent architecture to

   back up a rare but important failure. Obviously,

   one could put single, independent switches on

   everything . . . if that more closely meets your

   design goals, my all means.

 	  Quote: 	
		  5. Again, adding the appropriate ignition power to the design changes 

things as there can be no possibility for isolating power to the ignition 

in flight (without restarting in flight).



This would apply not only to Subaru's but many other Aeromotive brands.


	


   This drawing was crafted based on a specific set

   of installation instructions without attempting

   to do a one-size-fits-all approach. If you have some

   suggestions for a more generic approach, I'll suggest

   you sketch it out, scan it and post to the List.

   The Z-figures are not intended to be the gospel according

   to Bob N but a compilation of the best we know how to

   do for a broad spectrum of tasks and data sources.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Also,

Do any of your diagrams provide a design for including a clearance switch?


	


    Talking about a ATC clearance? This is usually

    taken care of by closing the e-bus alternate feed

    switch and powering up only the limited number

    of goodies on that bus . . . which generally

    includes at least one comm transceiver.



    Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

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Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: Questions re: Z19

Hello Bob,



If I may offer some recent information regarding this question/answer:



Bob N. answered:

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>2. Since Z19 is for an electrically dependent engine, it

>>would be great to

>>>see the required ignition power included.

>>

>>   I'm not sure what data I was given when that

>>   Z-figure was crafted. I'm thinking that the

>>   redundant ignition (if any) was paired with the

>>   redundant fuel management systems. If you've

>>   data that suggests expanded attention for

>>   the ignition system(s), I'd be pleased to add

>>   the coverage.


	


Allen F. adds:



Latest manual for Eggenfellner 6 cyl. Subaru states:

==================================================================

QUOTE:

E6-Series Engine Wiring



1) RED - 20A EFI Power. This wire provides power for your

Electronic Fuel Injection system. This includes the ignition coils

and fuel injector coils.



This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential

Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is

supplying power, this circuit must remain powered.



Use a 20 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker.



Having said all this, it is not strictly necessary for this circuit

to be switched on and off along with the ignition switch at all. If

the ECU is powered down, then it will never trigger the coils and

this circuit will sit idle, consuming no power. However, most

builders will prefer to have this circuit "switched" in order to

minimize the number of "always hot" circuits in the aircraft. This

requires that whatever switch or relay is controlling this circuit,

be capable of reliably handling the 20 Amp load.

END QUOTE



QUOTE:

2) RED - 5A ECU Power. This wire provides power for the ECU, the

computer that controls your engine.



This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential

Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is supplying

power, this circuit must remain powered.



Use a 5 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker.



This circuit should be switched by your Ignition Switch. Turning

off this circuit effectively shuts down the engine.

END QUOTE

==================================================================



As I understand Z19RB design, it seeks to feed essential engine power from

whichever Battery Bus is "hot" through the Engine Primary and Engine

Secondary OFF/ON switches and the associated bridge rectifiers.  With the

batteries in the back, the switches and rectifiers would be located on

and/or near the instrument panel.  That takes care of the ECU and #1 Fuel

Pump but what about the ignition coils and fuel injectors which Eggenfellner

calls the "Electronic Fuel Injection System"?



I seem to remember that you do not recommend feeding any load greater than

10A from the Battery busses.  Hence the question, how to feed the

"Electronic Fuel Injection system" from a specified 20A source?  Do we want

a pair of Three Pole/DT switches and another bridge rectifier w/heat sink

for the 20A load?  Or another pair of switches (Ignition Primary OFF/ON and

Ignition Secondary OFF/ON) and a bridge rectifier with appropriately sized

heat sink?  Or do we need one or two relays at the batteries just for the

ignition power?



Thank,



Allen Fulmer

RV7 Wiring

Alexander City, AL

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_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

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