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KF 3 or KF 4

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moosepileit

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: USA

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

Help,



I live 2 miles from a grass strip w/ no hangars.  I've owned a Pitts S1S and Luscombe 8E over the years, have lots of Supercub and Pawnee time also.  Started in Gliders at age 14.  



I am Looking at the KF line as I am used to removing wings on gliders and folding seems like a great option to survive lack of hangars nearby.  The wife likes side by side seating, even more power towards the KF.



The  Rotax 912 family is a must for power for me.  Would a KF 3 be ok or is it worth it to hold out to find a KF 4 w/ regards to flying quality.  I'd fly a few times a week for an hour or so w/ the occasional multi-hour flight.  I just saw a KF 3 pop up on the web w/ a 912.



I'm near Dover, DE



Thanks!

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: KF 3 or KF 4

Moosepilet,

If it is the same kitfox I just looked at on the web you better not hesitate.  I bet it doesn't last until tomorrow.  Those look like Federal Skis too.  Go buy it and make me a good deal on the shis.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

I suggest you consider the load capacity difference. M2 1050 vs later M4 

version up to 1200.

Different wing shapes will favor the M3 for STOL while the M4 can fly 

faster.

Flapperon design change and other changes improved flight controls.

See this link for more details. http://kitfoxaircraft.com/KitfoxHistory.htm



-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

moosepileit wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Help,



I live 2 miles from a grass strip w/ no hangars.  I've owned a Pitts S1S and Luscombe 8E over the years, have lots of Supercub and Pawnee time also.  Started in Gliders at age 14.  



I am Looking at the KF line as I am used to removing wings on gliders and folding seems like a great option to survive lack of hangars nearby.  The wife likes side by side seating, even more power towards the KF.



The  Rotax 912 family is a must for power for me.  Would a KF 3 be ok or is it worth it to hold out to find a KF 4 w/ regards to flying quality.  I'd fly a few times a week for an hour or so w/ the occasional multi-hour flight.  I just saw a KF 3 pop up on the web w/ a 912.



I'm near Dover, DE



Thanks!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151539#151539

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

Hold out for a Model IV-1200 or Classic.  Big Difference between 3 and 4.  Big Big Difference.

  

 Clint



 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:11:15 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: KF 3 or KF 4

 From: hefferans(at)gmail.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rexinator <hefferans(at)gmail.com>

 

 I suggest you consider the load capacity difference. M2 1050 vs later M4 

 version up to 1200.

 Different wing shapes will favor the M3 for STOL while the M4 can fly 

 faster.

 Flapperon design change and other changes improved flight controls.

 See this link for more details. http://kitfoxaircraft.com/KitfoxHistory.htm

 

 -- 

 Rex Hefferan

 SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

 

 

 moosepileit wrote:

 

 >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "moosepileit" <rklarich(at)msn.com>

 >

 >Help,

 >

 >I live 2 miles from a grass strip w/ no hangars. I've owned a Pitts S1S and Luscombe 8E over the years, have lots of Supercub and Pawnee time also. Started in Gliders at age 14. 

 >

 >I am Looking at the KF line as I am used to removing wings on gliders and folding seems like a great option to survive lack of hangars nearby. The wife likes side by side seating, even more power towards the KF.

 >

 >The Rotax 912 family is a must for power for me. Would a KF 3 be ok or is it worth it to hold out to find a KF 4 w/ regards to flying quality. I'd fly a few times a week for an hour or so w/ the occasional multi-hour flight. I just saw a KF 3 pop up on the web w/ a 912.

 >

 >I'm near Dover, DE

 >

 >Thanks!

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >Read this topic online here:

 >

 >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151539#151539

 >

 >

 > > 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

I would  suggest you look into Avid Flyers also,  Kitfox was actually a copy of the first Avids.  The Avid C model and the Mk IV are wider (40") than the earlyier Avid  models, and with the Heavy Hauler wing, the gross weight is 1150 lbs.   With a Jabiru or Rotax 912, you would have a nice plane.  Guess what I fly??  I don't have anything against the Kitfoxes, I just found good deals on my 2 Avids before a Kitfox came along.  Jim Chuk,  Avid Mk IV,  Jabiru

[quote] Subject: KF 3 or KF 4

 From: rklarich(at)msn.com

 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:57:13 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "moosepileit" <rklarich(at)msn.com>

 Help,

 I live 2 miles from a grass strip w/ no hangars. I've owned a Pitts S1S and Luscombe 8E over the years, have lots of Supercub and Pawnee time also. Started in Gliders at age 14. 

 I am Looking at the KF line as I am used to removing wings on gliders and folding seems like a great option to survive lack of hangars nearby. The wife likes side by side seating, even more power towards the KF.

 The Rotax 912 family is a must for power for me. Would a KF 3 be ok or is it worth it to hold out to find a KF 4 w/ regards to flying quality. I'd fly a few times a week for an hour or so w/ the occasional multi-hour flight. I just saw a KF 3 pop up on the web w/ a 912.

 I'm near Dover, DE

 Thanks!

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151539#151539

 ====================

Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join in!   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: KF 3 or KF 4

Moose,



The model 3 and earleir 4 gross was 1050 lbs.  The later model 4 gross was 1200 lbs.  That being said some of the later 4s were heavier empty and gobbling up some of the extra 150 lbs of additional gross weight. 



The biggest differance in handling from a 3 would be that it did not have aileron differential so you have more adverse yaw.  It has a different airfoil as well and likely is a little slower. 



I have here a 4  - 1050  with 582  and performs  well.   Here is videos 

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=kitfoxflyer



912 will give you a faster cruise by about 15to 20 mph on the same model but a model 3 likely about 10 mph or so.  Take off performance will also be judged by your emtpy aircraft weight.

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

moosepileit

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: USA

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: KF 3 or KF 4

Thank you for all the replies!    It's the featured 3 on barnstormers and the fella only has til 8 Jan to sell before a move.  Price w/ trailer seems great, but I'll probably miss out as I'm on a trip. He didn't give me Empty Weight in his first reply.  



It would do the trick for me it sounds like- I dont' mind adverse yaw, I can rudder as needed, and STOL over cruise is fine with me.



Cheers,

MP

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

Jim sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...Kitfox was actually a copy of the first Avids.


	


Why do Avid folks keep saying this?  Is it because Dean Wilson kept 

the Avid name and Dan Denney changed his to Kitfox?



Denney and Wilson designed and built the original Avid Flyer 

together.  When they parted ways they each continued with their own 

ideas for improving the design.  They couldn't both be called "Avid 

Flyer", so Denney changed the name of his version.



Neither is a copy of the other, they are an example of divergent evolution.



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

On Dec 11, 2007, at 1:44 AM, dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The biggest differance in handling from a 3 would be that it did not 

 have aileron differential so you have more adverse yaw.  It has a 

 different airfoil as well and likely is a little slower.


	


All this is very true. But when I got a chance to try a model IV 

(Classic) a few months ago, I found it to fly roughly like my model 3. 

.. or maybe it's because I am not a very good pilot! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: KF 3 or KF 4

Michel,

 OR MAYBE, you have become so adept at flying your model 3 that you use 

your rudder naturally and have become a better pilot than you think?

-- 

Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

Do Not Archive

Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Dec 11, 2007, at 1:44 AM, dave wrote:

> The biggest differance in handling from a 3 would be that it did not 

> have aileron differential so you have more adverse yaw.  It has a 

> different airfoil as well and likely is a little slower.

 All this is very true. But when I got a chance to try a model IV 

 (Classic) a few months ago, I found it to fly roughly like my model 3. 

 ... or maybe it's because I am not a very good pilot! 

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: KF 3 or KF 4

I see that Kitfox has a sale pending already. do not archive

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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