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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for information on what type of hanger lighting to install.  The ceilings will be 16' tall and it is 44' x 60'.  I would like good work lighting throughout.  Also, if anyone knows of the light spacing it would help.  



Thanks

-Mike Kraus

RV-4 Flying

RV-10 wiring

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Mike,



Just some advice...go to an industrial lighting shop.  You will need to define what you need the lighting for.  Are you just illuminating the area so you don't trip over the dog?  Are you lighting it for general housekeeping, such as moving equipment around and stacking things?  Are you lighting it for fine work, such as reading prints and diagrams and working on wires, and things that require good light to enable good vision?  They may even suggest providing high quality lighting in the work area and lower intensity lighting in the balance of the hangar.  They will also look at your ceiling height and determine the correct diffuser to use to distribute light and to prevent shadows...a big deal if you are doing maintenance.



A quality job only costs a little more but you'll pay dearly if you put some crappy home-brew lights in the hangar if you use it for anything but a place to park your airplane.  Just a thought.



Chuck

--

david.nelson(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Hi Michael,



I can't speak about hangar lighting specifically, but I'll share my experiences 

w/ lighting the garage.



I initially went with some dual florescenct bulb fixtures (40 watt, I believe) 

that hung from an 8' ceiling about one foot.  Sadly, they just didn't quite put 

out the kind of light I was wanting.  Especially if I was going to be working 

under them. And, admittedly, I was a little tight in the wallet when I 

purchased them.



I eventually replaced the above units w/ some dual flourescent 8 foot, 96 watt 

bulbs (F96T12 bulbs).  The fixtures attached to the ceiling.  At the time (~4 

yrs ago), the fixture and bulbs were about $50 per setup at Lowes.  Also, the 

nice thing about the F96T12 bulbs is that you don't have insert-and-twist to 

install them.  They use the spring loaded setup that works axially; so it's 

more of a stab-and-release operation.



About a year ago I helped a friend replace some 2'x2' units in his office. The 

new units used some little skinny flourescent bulbs (~3/4 of the diameter of 

the traditional flourescent bulbs) that relied on electronics rather than 

ballasts to operate.  When we 1st turned them on, we couldn't help but notice 

how bright they were.  Don't know if they exist in the longer versions or not, 

but you might consider them.



Also, since you're installing in a hangar (and with a high ceiling that is 

probably dark and does not reflect any light), I'd consider adding some kind of 

reflector that covers the top of the fixture to relect light back down where 

it's needed/wanted.  No sense wasting light upwards.



Good luck,



 	 /\/elson

 	 RV-7A - Fuse (getting close to the canopy work)

 	 Austin, TX



On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Michael Kraus wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for information on 

 what type of hanger lighting to install.  The ceilings will be 16' tall and 

 it is 44' x 60'.  I would like good work lighting throughout.  Also, if 

 anyone knows of the light spacing it would help.



 Thanks -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 wiring

bmeyette(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

What was suggested to me as the cheapest and simplest way to get good

lighting is to use those mercury vapor yard lights.   You can just tape over

the light sensor, or I rewired mine around the sensor.   Lots of light, they

only cost about $25 each, and they are not sensitive to cold as fluorescents

are.

brian



--

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

If this is not a heated area I would not recommend using the 8'

fluorescents.  They do not respond as well to colder weather as they

flicker.  You can use 4' fixtures with light shields (ceiling height) but

there are better options.  Lowes and Home Depot sell a 65 watt fluorescent

area light that is round and has a parabolic type reflective lens.  We have

many hangars here at our airpark that uses these including mine.  A new

hangar was just built and 9 of these were spaced out in there which provides

excellent lighting in this hangar.  The cost for these is around $44each.

We have some metal hangars that have very high ceilings and the same light

were used but were mounted on a metal extension to get the light down to

about 10-12 feet off the floor.



I am not an engineer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night

but I did spend over 20 years installing lighting systems in both

residential and commercial applications.  I used these lights in my hangar

and they work well.



Tim



[quote] --

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

I have a standard T hangar.  I have 4 typical 2 bulb florescent fixtures, but I suspended them from the ceiling to where they are about 10' high or so.  Plenty of light to do just about anything.  I have them over the wings, and over the tail.  I may add one more over the middle of the fuse, but 4 seems to be fine.  Cheap and very effective.  Obviously the work bench would need a suspended light above it as well.  Also, if you can epoxy the floor that would help if you used white or light grey.



Paul Besing



---

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Mike,

I see you have received quite a bit of info on hangar lighting. However, you 

should check with your county/city inspector about hangar lighting 

requirements before proceeding.



When I built my hangar next to my home, in a private residential airpark, 

the county required me to put in special lighting fixtures that meet a 

national code.Did not make me happy but I had no choice. They would not give 

me a Certificate of Occupancy without the approved lighting. This may be 

especially true if you live  in a residential area, such as an airpark, but 

they told me there is now a national code that covers all airplane hangars. 

A friend  tried getting around the requirement by calling the building a 

storage building. But, when the inspector came out he saw the hangar door 

and the 'storage building' claim went down the drain.

Good luck!

Dale Ensing



---

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

tiger10(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

It depends on where you are. In cold weather florescent  lights are not too usefull. the take a long time to warm up and then are nto as  bright as they neomaly are in the warmer months. Up her in theh Colorado high  country, I have found that a mercury vapor hi bay frxture works best. thy take a  few minutes to get goiong but when they light it is bright. 

 Jim Carey



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul  Besing

Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:39 AM

To:  rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Off Topic: Hanger  Lighting

 

  I  have a standard T hangar.  I have 4 typical 2 bulb florescent fixtures, but  I suspended them from the ceiling to where they are about 10' high or so.   Plenty of light to do just about anything.  I have them over the wings, and  over the tail.  I may add one more over the middle of the fuse, but 4 seems  to be fine.  Cheap and very effective.  Obviously the work bench would  need a suspended light above it as well.  Also, if you can epoxy the floor  that would help if you used white or light grey.



Paul Besing



 -----  Original Message ----

From: Michael Kraus  <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday,  December 10, 2007 6:01:33 AM

Subject: Off Topic: Hanger  Lighting



--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>



I  am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for information on what  type of hanger lighting to install.  The ceilings will be 16' tall and it  is 44' x 60'.  I would like good work lighting throughout. Find them fast  with Yahoo! Search.  	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

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   [quote][b]

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

You might epoxy coat the floor with a light color paint. It will double the

effectiveness of any  lighting fixtures.



Bruce

www.Glasair.org

 



--

david.nelson(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Hi Tim,



Good point on temps.  I do notice it takes a couple of minutes for them to warm 

up and brighten up.  I've also observed that the same applies to the standard 

length units also but admittedly I've never compared the two.



By the time I get the kerosene heater going and the garage warmed up in the 

cooler months, the lights are good to go.



? - Why wouldn't the 65 watt fluorescent units that you talk about below suffer 

from the same effects (or is it affects)?



Regards,

 	 /\/elson



On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Tim Bryan wrote:



[quote] 



 If this is not a heated area I would not recommend using the 8'

 fluorescents.  They do not respond as well to colder weather as they

 flicker.  You can use 4' fixtures with light shields (ceiling height) but

 there are better options.  Lowes and Home Depot sell a 65 watt fluorescent

 area light that is round and has a parabolic type reflective lens.  We have

 many hangars here at our airpark that uses these including mine.  A new

 hangar was just built and 9 of these were spaced out in there which provides

 excellent lighting in this hangar.  The cost for these is around $44each.

 We have some metal hangars that have very high ceilings and the same light

 were used but were mounted on a metal extension to get the light down to

 about 10-12 feet off the floor.



 I am not an engineer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night

 but I did spend over 20 years installing lighting systems in both

 residential and commercial applications.  I used these lights in my hangar

 and they work well.



 Tim



> --

mike109g6(at)insideconnec
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Mike,

In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units.  Great lighting, work in 

cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after 3 1/2 years 

continual use, pricey but great lighting.  Lowe's carries the 8' fixture and 

bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no twisting).  In my work areas I 

have added specific lighting to the situation.  Bandsaw, lathe, drill press 

(dangerous areas) have separate lighting on switches.  I would not hang any 

lighting on the 16' ceiling though.  Lighting disperses geometrically.  So 

whatever lighting that you choose, suspend it from some cheap chain and 

lower it to about 2-3 feet above your highest point on the floor, ie tail of 

plane.  Reflectors are cheaper than lighting units and you will save 

electricity which equals $.  More $ to spend on RV's.  Remember, whatever 

lighting that you put in, you will not want to replace anytime soon, if 

ever, by lowering your units, maintenance will be easier also, unless you 

just happen to have a 16' step ladder.

Mike H

9A/8A

---

chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Get the T8 bulbs available at almost any major hardware with, I can't 

remember exactly, but I think they're called bright or brilliant white. 

20,000 hour lifetime, relatively cheap, don't buzz and instant on.  Everyone 

who's built a hanger since mine was built has installed these and are very 

happy...and so am I.

Chuck

---

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

The National Electrical Code (NEC) has covered airplane hangars for a long

time.  More than 30 years that I know of.  It covers all airplane hangars

but a common mistake is the whole hangar is not classified the same.  All

wiring above a classified area must be in metal conduit however there is not

a specific restriction on the lighting unless it is in the classified area.



The area classification is premised on the fuel in the airplane and that any

leakage or drips allow the fumes to gather at the floor.  Therefore

typically the classification is up to 18" above the floor and at the nose of

the airplane and around any fuel tanks.  Just stay out of those areas and

you will be fine.  If this job is getting inspected than you need to wire in

metal conduit.  That can also include the bx type flexible conduit with

wires already included.



If you need more detail contact me off list.



Tim Bryan  

ex. Electrical contractor and electrical inspector for State of Oregon.



[quote] --

jfogarty(at)tds.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Mike, 

http://www.businesslights.com/high-bay-metal-halide-fixtures-c-277_477.html



We used this type of light in our hangar and they work good.  We have an 

insulated hangar with a white medal ceiling, I'm not sure what size of light 

but they were installed for about $300.00 per/light at the time.  They are 

very costly compared with other lights, however, they have all worked good 

over the past 4 years in our 70'x70' hangar.  We are located in Minnesota. 

I hope some day we get the floor painted.



They do come up slow but once they are on they are bright.



Jim

RV9a builder

---

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

I just read through all the replies to this post and

being an electrician, here is my .02.



I would not mount the fixtures at 16 feet.  The light

amount does disperse geometrically.  Use fixture chain

and lower the fixtures to 12 inches above the rudder

or highest point of the aircraft.  Consider that you

will have to change the lamps sooner or later.  If

unheated, use cold weather ballasts.  Reflectors make

a big difference unless you like lighting the ceiling.

 If you will be doing a lot of maintenance, consider

mounting a row of lights on each side of the hangar

walls horizontally at about 4 feet from the floor. All

the light in the world shining down will not light up

the area under the wings or cockpit (as in a

Cessna172).  A floor paint will help with reflectivity

but it is more for easy clean up as in an oil spill,

which I have never done. 



I reiterated a lot of comments here, just reaffirming

what has been said.



Dave



--- Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>

 

  

 

 I am building a new hanger on my house and was

 looking for information on what type of hanger

 lighting to install.  The ceilings will be 16' tall

 and it is 44' x 60'.  I would like good work

 lighting throughout.  Also, if anyone knows of the

 light spacing it would help.  

 

 Thanks

 -Mike Kraus

 RV-4 Flying

 RV-10 wiring

 

 

 



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n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 ? - Why wouldn't the 65 watt fluorescent units that you talk about below

 suffer

 from the same effects (or is it affects)?

 

 Regards,

  	 /\/elson

 


	


[Tim] They still get brighter as they warm up but they don't flicker like

the 8 foot fluorescents do.  4 foot fluorescents don't really flicker to

bad, but these lights use a lens that helps get the light down.  They say

they are equivalent to a 500 watt but it is only 65 watts of power.



I like them except for they are hard to mount on a flat ceiling.

billsettle(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Mike, 

  

I agree with what Mike Humphrey said.  I have a 26' x 32' detached garage that I use solely to build my -8 with.  It has a 10' ceiling and the interior is all painted white.  I have (9) 8' dual bulb T-12 fixtures and it is ample lighting.  I have no problems at all with the lights coming on all the way down into the 20's F.  However, I have had to replace one ballast at a cost of $43 after only 2 1/2 years though.  I would still do the same thing again... 

  

I know a guy who works for a large tire manufacturer.  He said his company paid a lighting consultant come in and come up with ideas to lower their lighting expenses.  He said the guy came in and walked all through the plant looking at the facility.  In the end, he asked what the highest level was that their tallest forklift would reach.  They gave him their answer, (I don't recall what it was) and his solution was to lower all the fixtures to within 2' of the tallest forklift reach, then turn off half their lights... 

  

Bill Settle 

-8 Wings (Still) 

Winston-Salem, NC 

  

  

----------- Original message from "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net>: -------------- 

[quote] --> RV-List message posted by: "mike humphrey" 

 

 Mike, 

 In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, work in 

 cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after 3 1/2 years 

 continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's carries the 8' fixture and 

 bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no twisting). In my work areas I 

 have added specific lighting to the situation. Bandsaw, lathe, drill press 

 (dangerous areas) have separate lighting on switches. I would not hang any 

 lighting on the 16' ceiling though. Lighting disperses geometrically. So 

 whatever lighting that you choose, suspend it from some cheap chain and 

 lower it to about 2-3 feet above your highest point on the floor, ie tail of 

 pla  ne. Re flectors are cheaper than lighting units and you will save 

 electricity which equals $. More $ to spend on RV's. Remember, whatever 

 lighting that you put in, you will not want to replace anytime soon, if 

 ever, by lowering your units, maintenance will be easier also, unless you 

 just happen to have a 16' step ladder. 

 Mike H 

 9A/8A 

 ---

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Brian

I'd avoid this route as this is exactly what I've done. the color from the

cheap mercvapor lighting is an awful yellow that distorts all color

perception. although the light was bright enough, i actually got headaches

from the poor light color after long periods of exposure. i haven't changed

them out yet, but i have lined the perimeter of the hangar with 4ft

fluorescent fixtures and it has made a huge difference. perhaps the best

lighting solution is a marriage of different technologies. 

of coarse your mileage may vary...

steve dinieri

Iflyrv10.com

--

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Just to be correct, mercury vapor lights have a bluish

light.  If the light is a deep yellow, it is a low

pressure sodium light.  If the light is almost white

with a yellowish tint, it is a high pressure sodium

light.



Dave



--- Steven DiNieri <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>

 

 Brian

 I'd avoid this route as this is exactly what I've

 done. the color from the

 cheap mercvapor lighting is an awful yellow that

 distorts all color

 perception. although the light was bright enough, i

 actually got headaches

 from the poor light color after long periods of

 exposure. i haven't changed

 them out yet, but i have lined the perimeter of the

 hangar with 4ft

 fluorescent fixtures and it has made a huge

 difference. perhaps the best

 lighting solution is a marriage of different

 technologies. 

 of coarse your mileage may vary...

 steve dinieri

 Iflyrv10.com

 

 

 --

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting

Ok, I would like to chime in on yet another subject I know NOTHING about!  

I own a 50' x 50' hangar (2500 square feet) and it came with lighting that was detailed in Jim's email:  

http://www.businesslights.com/high-bay-metal-halide-fixtures-c-277_477.html  

My unit has only 4 of these lights hung very high in the rafters (probably 25’ high ceilings) and it is plenty of light for that space. Frankly I was surprised to see how inexpensive they were listed as I always assumed they were more expensive that that.   

While I have read and understand that lowing the lights is the proper decision for some styles of lights if one goes into a Costco you see these lights suspended all the way up the very top of the store, well clear of any equipment or storage needs. I assume they know what they are doing in placing these lamps that high.  

The drawback to these lights is that they do not turn on instantly. When I flip the switch I get annoyed that I don’t have instant light but before I think about it a second time the lights are fully on. I have no idea how energy efficient these lights are but I am a satisfied owner for both amount or light and light quality.  

   

4:30 am, Can’t sleep,  

Robin  

RV-4               Sold  

RV-6A            400 Hours  

RV-10             BPE Engine arrived  

      [quote][b]

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