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AOA in your RV-10?

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ericparlow(at)hotmail.com
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: AOA in your RV-10?

Who's using AOA in their RV-10?

  

 See: http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html

  

 Blue Mountain has integrated AFS's software into EFIS/one Gen 3, but I don't have the wing kit installed.

  

 Is the "Wing Kit A" that AFS sells worth the $400 or could made easily?

  

 Does anyone have good pictures of the hardware included in "Wing Kit A"?

  

 ERic--

 RV-10, 40014

 N104EP

  [quote][b]

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bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: AOA in your RV-10?

I've got an AOA Pro in my (not quite flying yet) panel.  Alex DeDominicis also has an AOA Pro in his RV-10 that he uses for transition training.  I just flew with him last week and it was great!  



The wing kit consists of a pair of UMHW "pressure taps" and the associated tubing.  There isn't really anything special about the taps - they just give you a way to connect the tubing to the small hole in the upper & lower holes that you drill in the wing.  Upper port also has a fitting for draining any water that might collect.  The tubing is colored 1/8" Tygon.  Kit also includes install instructions, labels for the ports and some other misc. stuff - not sure if it also includes the switch for flap position or not.  There's probably some cost saving potential but in the end you'd spend a fair amount of time trying to replicate what AFS sells and wouldn't end up with the same quality.   



I personally would consider fabricating my own wing kit any more than I'd fab my own heated pitot tube.



Bob #40105

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bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: Re: AOA in your RV-10?

Typo - I would NOT fab the AOA wing kit any more than I'd considering fab of a heated pitot tube instead of buying one.



Bob

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: Re: AOA in your RV-10?

Eric,

I have installed two AOAs in my RV-10 still under construction. I looked at all the options out there and decided on the Dynon heated pitot with AoA. Listed at $450 but it'll be $600 by the time you buy the Gretz mount and other stuff (it's still an excellent pitot tube). Obviously that means there will be a Dynon somewhere on the panel.

The other AOA I purchased is called a Lift Reserve Indicator made by InAir Instruments. It is purely mechanical and used a round dial gauge that I plan on mounting on my glareshield. I think I paid $400 for it at Oshkosh.



You probably wonder why two - simple, I was a Navy jet jock many years ago and learned to trust it above everything else. The Dynon, InAir, and the AFS use the same principle of differential air pressure. The Dynon and InAir are under the wing and protected from rain while parked. The AFS uses a hole on top of the wing which requires a drain port to check during preflight.

I've seen a few airplanes out there with a Vane on the wingtip that would do the job as well, but I was worried about its susceptibility to damage by people passing by who couldn't resist turn it.



You can build your own, as well. Here is a site where someone did:  http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm    The principle is real simple: two air ports at different angles to the airstream. If more air is coming through the upper one, you're going fast. You could actually just hook them up to red and green balloons in the cockpit. When the red one gets bigger than the green, you should drop the nose. Calibrating something like that would be funny to watch but you get the drift.



One additional point; the Dynon heated tube gives me IFR capability and the Dynon EFIS will give me the required aural stall warning. I didn't install the Vans Stall Warning device because of that.



Hope this helps



John

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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

cjay

Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 53

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: AOA in your RV-10?

Hey John,



The InAir (and Dynon) is a great deal cheaper than the AFS.  Does the AFS AOA have any benefits over InAir?



regards,



cjay



 	  johngoodman wrote: 	
		  Eric,

I have installed two AOAs in my RV-10 still under construction. I looked at all the options out there and decided on the Dynon heated pitot with AoA. Listed at $450 but it'll be $600 by the time you buy the Gretz mount and other stuff (it's still an excellent pitot tube). Obviously that means there will be a Dynon somewhere on the panel.

The other AOA I purchased is called a Lift Reserve Indicator made by InAir Instruments. It is purely mechanical and used a round dial gauge that I plan on mounting on my glareshield. I think I paid $400 for it at Oshkosh.



You probably wonder why two - simple, I was a Navy jet jock many years ago and learned to trust it above everything else. The Dynon, InAir, and the AFS use the same principle of differential air pressure. The Dynon and InAir are under the wing and protected from rain while parked. The AFS uses a hole on top of the wing which requires a drain port to check during preflight.

I've seen a few airplanes out there with a Vane on the wingtip that would do the job as well, but I was worried about its susceptibility to damage by people passing by who couldn't resist turn it.



You can build your own, as well. Here is a site where someone did:  http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm    The principle is real simple: two air ports at different angles to the airstream. If more air is coming through the upper one, you're going fast. You could actually just hook them up to red and green balloons in the cockpit. When the red one gets bigger than the green, you should drop the nose. Calibrating something like that would be funny to watch but you get the drift.



One additional point; the Dynon heated tube gives me IFR capability and the Dynon EFIS will give me the required aural stall warning. I didn't install the Vans Stall Warning device because of that.



Hope this helps



John

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: AOA in your RV-10?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the AFS system from my point of view. I just prefer to have the probes under the wing. The hole on top is a water collection problem, that's all (easy to put a cover on pitot tubes and LRI probes). Cost is also a factor. However, I will say that I find most of the cockpit displays too colorful and complex for my tastes. Too much interpretation of what the little colored chevrons mean. That's why I like an analog dial - just like the Navy. The red/amber/green colors originate from the chevron light indicator that was in the carrier jets (only used for landings). The pilot only saw (from top to bottom) an inverted red chevron, an amber circle, or a green chevron (slow changes would show two lights). What the Navy pilot was seeing was the same thing as the lights on the nose wheel that the LSO (Landing Signal Officer) saw. In a simple example, he could tell if you were pulling up the nose without power because the lights would start blinking from amber to amber/red, or red.



Since you asked, I read through the calibration process of the AFS product and found it a little complex. Calibration is still required for any of them, but I liked the InAir the best. Since I didn't want to cut into my QB wings to put in Van's stall warning, the Dynon system seemed to fill all the squares - a heated pitot, and an aural stall warning that was based on a system I knew and trusted. I still wanted a genuine analog dial, so I also chose InAir and put it on the other wing. The advantage of an analog dial is that I will be able to calibrate Maneuvering, L over D max, Best Glide, Best Range, etc., and put marks on the dial face. To give an example, the guy who always won in ACM (air combat maneuvering - dogfighting) always kept the high g turn right on L over D Max. Since the gauge was on the upper left of the panel, a savvy Air Force guy could force you into right turns and take the advantage away, I'm sad to say....

John

 	  cjay wrote: 	
		  Hey John,



The InAir (and Dynon) is a great deal cheaper than the AFS.  Does the AFS AOA have any benefits over InAir?



regards,



cjay

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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: AOA in your RV-10?

Just a couple of comments on this.  Most people I have talked to have rarely, if ever, actually had any water in their AFS AOA.  It also comes preloaded with an RV-10 profile so while it does need to be calibrated to your specific aircraft, it's at least useable out of the box.



Michael



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whd721

Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: AOA in your RV-10?

Note: The Reserve Lift Indicator is calibrated by flying, stalling, landing and adjusting the probe--flying, stalling, landing and adjusting - flying, stalling........

 However, once installed it has worked as advertised.  My problem is and has been the indicator needle.  I cannot see it in the last twenty feet during landing.  My peripheral vision doesn't pick up the indicator needle( mounted on the Glare Shield) when I need it.  This may be my problem as I am a low time pilot with a high pilot load during landing.

I intend to install the AOA Sport next, I intend to mount the LED display on the Glare Shield and monitor the color change with peripheral vision.

  

  

 

[quote] From: rvbuilder(at)sausen.net

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:34:16 -0600

 Subject: RE: Re: AOA in your RV-10?

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

 

 Just a couple of comments on this. Most people I have talked to have rarely, if ever, actually had any water in their AFS AOA. It also comes preloaded with an RV-10 profile so while it does need to be calibrated to your specific aircraft, it's at least useable out of the box.

 

 Michael

 

 --

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whd721
RV9A
Beaverton, OR

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