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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: Safety rings

Group,

 

 A while back someone on the list said that safety rings were better  than 

safety pins ,especially on the tail feathers. OK    Who is  the source for the 

rings ? I don't seem to be able to find anyone who handles  them>

 

 

          Ed  Diebel

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: Safety rings

| A while back someone on the list said that safety rings were better 

than

| safety pins ,especially on the tail feathers. OK    Who is  the 

source for the

| rings ? I don't seem to be able to find anyone who handles  them>

|

|

|          Ed  Diebel

Hi Ed:



I am fortunate.  Do not have to fold.  If I did have to fold my Kolb, 

I would still use the same system I use now, AN bolts, washers, and 

nyloc nuts.



Probably the most vulnerable attachment is the lower tailwires on the 

tail post.  On other than a manicured airstrip, safety pins and safety 

rings are at risk of becoming unfastened.  A 3/16 bolt inserted from 

right to left, when standing behind the rudder and looking forward, 

with washers and a nyloc nut make me feel much more comfortable.



Previously, I inserted the above bolt from left to right from habit. 

Had occassion to come very close to losing the nut which was unscrewed 

by alder bushed in my first off field landing in Alaska, 1994.  From 

tht time on, I always insert from right to left with nut on the left. 

That way, the nut will be tightened as it is subjected to bushes and 

heavy weeds, etc.



Doesn't take much longer to spin off or on the same amount of nyloc 

nuts as it does to fumble with safety pins and rings, in my opinion.



Take care,



john h

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: Safety rings

Do not use a safety ring or safety pin on that lower tail wire bolt. Do 

what John says, use a real bolt. For the other pins, the easiest way to 

get a circle pin is to make your own. Go by Lowes or any hardware store, 

get a spring with at least 1/2" to 5/8" ID, and cut out some rings with 

a pair of side cutters, or best of all - a Dremel tool using a cut-off 

wheel. You can easily make a half dozen of them in 20 minutes. Or spend 

an hour doing it and give some to all your friends. They will think you 

are a great guy.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



PeeEss to John: Are you sure about that right to left stuff? You got me 

thinkin' (always scary) and I went to the garage and got a nut and bolt, 

and if the bolt goes in from the left, and the nut is on the right 

(looking from tail to nose) a wiping motion against the bottom of the 

nut tightens it. If the bolt comes in from the right to the left, the 

nut on the left end is loosened by a wiping motion on the bottom... Or 

am I missing something? Again?



John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



  | A while back someone on the list said that safety rings were better 

 than

 | safety pins ,especially on the tail feathers. OK    Who is  the 

 source for the

 | rings ? I don't seem to be able to find anyone who handles  them>

 |

 |

 |          Ed  Diebel

 Hi Ed:



 I am fortunate.  Do not have to fold.  If I did have to fold my Kolb, 

 I would still use the same system I use now, AN bolts, washers, and 

 nyloc nuts.



 Probably the most vulnerable attachment is the lower tailwires on the 

 tail post.  On other than a manicured airstrip, safety pins and safety 

 rings are at risk of becoming unfastened.  A 3/16 bolt inserted from 

 right to left, when standing behind the rudder and looking forward, 

 with washers and a nyloc nut make me feel much more comfortable.



 Previously, I inserted the above bolt from left to right from habit. 

 Had occassion to come very close to losing the nut which was unscrewed 

 by alder bushed in my first off field landing in Alaska, 1994.  From 

 tht time on, I always insert from right to left with nut on the left. 

 That way, the nut will be tightened as it is subjected to bushes and 

 heavy weeds, etc.



 Doesn't take much longer to spin off or on the same amount of nyloc 

 nuts as it does to fumble with safety pins and rings, in my opinion.



 Take care,



 john h

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: Safety rings

In a message dated 2/23/2006 9:36:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:



I always  insert from right to left with nut on the left. 

That way, the nut will be  tightened as it is subjected to bushes and 

heavy weeds,  etc.



Hi John H,

 

I am trying to understand how the nut would be "tightened", when  mounted on 

the left side (as standing behind the tail looking forward).  If  I then stand 

on the left side of the plane and look face in to the end of  the bolt and 

nut, it seems as though the bushes & weeds, as they pass  from front to rear, 

would rub against the bottom edge of the nut trying to  turn it 

counterclockwise, which would in effect screw it off the  bolt.  Am I misunderstanding 

something here.

 

Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Safety rings

| PeeEss to John: Are you sure about that right to left stuff?



Brother Richard P:



I was backassward.  Put the bolt in from left to right.  As the nut on 

the bolt, not the nut on the control stick (that's me) zips through 

whatever it is zipping through, it will tighten rather than loosen.



Hope I didn't screw folks up too badly with the first iteration. 

hehehe



john hMKIII/912ULS

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Safety rings

| I am trying to understand how the nut would be "tightened",  |

| Bill  Varnes

Brother Bill V:



You are absolutely correct.  Checking to see if you all are awake out 

there.  



john h

hauck's holler, alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: Safety rings

Hey, that's a good story - I would stick with it... :-!



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   You are absolutely correct.  Checking to see if you all are awake out 

 there.  



 john h

 hauck's holler, alabama

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Denny Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: Safety rings

---

Denny Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: Safety Rings

Anyone interested,

Just checked out McMaster-Carrs web sight for Safety Rings.

They call them "Cotter rings" so that is what you want to search for on their sight. They sell them Dirt cheap and have them in Steel and Stainless steel and two differant finishes.  Also have several differant sizes.

If you have never ordered from these fine folks you are in for a treat, they are the fastest, best service in the world and the shipping is very reasonable.

Check their sight for just about anything you might want to buy, they probably have it.



Denny Rowe

vicsvinyl(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: Safety rings

Hey John H.

  Speaking of nuts, does size (prop) matter. You said your runing a 72" on 

your 912S I'll be using a 70" Warp Drive with a 912ul. Is that a good combo 

to start with.

Vic

Maine

MKIIIX

do not archive 



--

n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: Safety Rings

<SNIP>



If you have never ordered from these fine folks you are in for a treat,

they are the fastest, best service in the world and the shipping is very

reasonable.

Check their sight for just about anything you might want to buy, they

probably have it.



Denny Rowe



<SNIP>



Hey Denny...your right about McMaster-Carr.  Funny story....my office

used to be in Phenix City, Al. (approx. 1.5 hours southwest of Atlanta,

Ga.)



I called in an order about noon for a couple of things I needed and went

back to working at my desk...'bout 3 oclock the doorbell rings and it is

a delivery guy.  This is an everyday thing (getting a package...work

related at least) but when I look at the "from who" on the package it

was McMaster!  I asked the guy how it got here the same day and he

grinned and said. "I drove it down from Atlanta!"  



Turns out one of their main warehouses is in Atlanta and they do enough

business in my area to run a delivery route direct from their warehouse!

Was the fastest delivery ever for me...



Jeremy

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: Safety Rings

Agreed.  Their catalog is one you can't put down once you start leafing

through.  -includes obscure stuff you never knew existed.

-BB do not archive



On 24, Feb 2006, at 9:00 AM, Jeremy Casey wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 <SNIP>



 If you have never ordered from these fine folks you are in for a treat,

 they are the fastest, best service in the world and the shipping is 

 very

 reasonable.

 Check their sight for just about anything you might want to buy, they

 probably have it.



 Jeremy

Denny Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: Safety Rings

I feel so insignificant!  

I thought I said that.  



Denny Rowe

do not archive

---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: Safety rings

|  Speaking of nuts, does size (prop) matter. You said your runing a 

72" on

| your 912S I'll be using a 70" Warp Drive with a 912ul. Is that a 

good combo

| to start with.

|

|

| Vic



Yes, I put a lot of hours on a 912UL with 70" Warp.  Also flew the 

912ULS with a 70".  Last flight to Alaska was with that prop.  Paul 

Petty will be flying my old prop on his 912UL Kolbra.



john h

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: Safety Rings

In a message dated 2/24/2006 12:29:19 A.M. Central Standard Time,  

rowedl(at)highstream.net writes:



Just  checked out McMaster-Carrs web sight for Safety Rings.

They call them  "Cotter rings" so that is what you want to search for on 

their sight. They  sell them Dirt cheap and have them in Steel and Stainless steel 

and two  differant finishes.  Also have several differant sizes.

If you have  never ordered from these fine folks you are in for a treat, they 

are the  fastest, best service in the world and the shipping is very  

reasonable.

Check their sight for just about anything you might want to  buy, they 

probably have it.





Thanks Denny,

    I will be getting some.

 

                      Ed                               Do not archieve

vicsvinyl(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: Safety rings

Yes, I put a lot of hours on a 912UL with 70" Warp.  Also flew the 

912ULS with a 70".  Last flight to Alaska was with that prop.  Paul 

Petty will be flying my old prop on his 912UL Kolbra.



john h 



Why the switch to a 72"



just curious   Vic

--

dpaule(at)frii.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: Safety Rings

Don't use them on airplanes!

I've got an F-27 sailboat and the email forum for these trimarans has

reported several instances of the rings coming out. I've caught a couple

just before they came undone on my own boat.



When I do use them, I wrap rigging tape (vinyl tape is fine) around the ring

and the pin that the ring is holding and that whole joint. Then it's an easy

inspection of the tape, which I generally change every time I launch the

boat, once or twice a year. When the tape is wrapped around them they are

fine.



But to reiterate, it's not an aircraft device... far too dangerous.



Dave Paule

Kolb Firestar II for sale

Cessna 180 Big Hammer

F-27 Second Chance

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: Safety Rings

At Ralph Burlingame's recommendation, I bought some stainless steel safety

rings at the local sailboat store.  They are one inch in diameter, and have

an offset end to make them easy to thread into the hole in the clevis pin.



And as John H suggests, I do not use a clevis pin for the tail wires - I use

an AN-3 bolt with a drilled shank.  After I install this bolt with a

wingnut, it is secured with a safety pin (or ring).  



Dennis Kirby

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: Safety Rings

| And as John H suggests, I do not use a clevis pin for the tail 

wires - I use

| an AN-3 bolt with a drilled shank.  After I install this bolt with a

| wingnut, it is secured with a safety pin (or ring).

|

| Dennis Kirby



Maybe some of the experts on the List will respond to this.  I know 

Old Kolb and probably New Kolb send along a wing nut for attachment of 

the lower wire brace.  The bolt is in shear and tension.  I have not 

checked, but would guess the wing nut is a tension only piece of 

hardware.  Might be worth checking out.  That is why I use a nyloc nut 

on the bottom wire brace bolt.



john h

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Larry Cottrell

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: Safety Rings

---

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