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GreasySideUp

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 44

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:11 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

I know a few of you have bought Yaks from overseas.  A couple of questions.



How much does the disassembly shipping and reassembly cost for a Yak shipped over from Germany or Russia?  Also what time frame can I reasonably expect and what have any of you done as far as escrow or payment for buying something like this sight unseen from a foreign country?  Any shipping companies to recommend or to stay away from?



Thanks,



-j

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Shipping from Europe to USA

There is only one person I can think of that I would trust to pull something like this off....and that is Dennis. He as done plenty of these...he can tell some of the joys involved as well!

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Dennis and Steve Beaver. Steve started it and Dennis has carried the torch

for the 52's in Central Alabama. There are others out there to that have

done this. Doug Sapp, Cliff Coy, Bill Walker, Steve Culp, Barry Hancock to

name a few. I'm sure I have left a few out like Dave Hilker and Jj Johnson.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the time it is in the container on the truck headed to the port until

the truck pulls up in front of your hanger for YOU to unload your prize,
	


expect about a month. Assuming there are no issues at the port of entry. 

Are you buying this 50 from an individual or are you getting it from a

company like Termikus, YAKUK, ANABARAS, or Nerka to name a few? If so they

already have the expertise in disassembly, loading it in the container for

safe transport, and arranging the clearance of customs and loading the

container on the boat for the pond crossing for delivery to your chosen port

of entry. Dennis Savarese and the others above can give you all the

particulars along with contact names if you are trying to do this on your

own. The price of shipping mine was included in the purchase price as were

the hassles of dealing with the shippers and customs. 

Dennis is (at) 334-285-3242 Office and Cell (other office) 334-546-8121.

Doc



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Shipping from Europe to USA

If we are including CJ's..then yeah...Doug Sapp. 



Dennis and Doug do this on a regular basis so they would get my nod without hesitation. Barry does jets..and nice ones. Steve Culp, he is more parts now and I am not sure he would even tackle a no kidding airplane. 



Josh,



You really need to find an airplane here in the states. I would recommend finding everyone on the FAA data base who owns a -50 and ask them if they might be interested in selling. You may find one guy/gal who was thinking about it but had not pulled the trigger. You may help him the rest of the way. 



Before you deal with anyone, get some reviews...someone on here has dealt with at least one of the folks on that list and can pass along some info. It is a VERY small community and someone will have an opinion.

cliff(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Having brought in over 300 aircraft into the states and 40-50 outbound, 

here's what I can tell you:



A standard Yak-52 takes 2 men about 4 days to dis-assemble, pack, and 

load a container.



KNOW WHO YOUR BUYING FROM AND ASK AROUND.



I highly recommend purchasing from a known and reputable company.



We normally do a 20% down to secure and load the aircraft.  When the 

container is loaded and ready to ship (pictures, container # etc)

we wire the remaining 80%.  If you're not familiar with the trials and 

tribulations of trans-oceanic shipping find someone who is.



Expect about $3500 for the container and about $250 in shipping 

insurance.  This doesn't include inland trucking or border inspection 

fees (if yours gets tagged- ~$1000).



Re-assembly is 2 men in 2 days and is done in conjunction with a 

condition inspection. We flat rate it.

Expect about $500-$1000 if a DAR is going to certify the aircraft. 

The FAA will do it for free, but certifications are not high on their 

list of things to do.



So all told expect about $8500 and 6-8 weeks from container start to 

airplane flying.



Hope this helps in your decision.



Best regards,

Cliff



GreasySideUp wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I know a few of you have bought Yaks from overseas.  A couple of questions.



 How much does the disassembly shipping and reassembly cost for a Yak shipped over from Germany or Russia?  Also what time frame can I reasonably expect and what have any of you done as far as escrow or payment for buying something like this sight unseen from a foreign country?  Any shipping companies to recommend or to stay away from?



 Thanks,



 -j





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157783#157783





   


	


-- 

Clifford Coy

Director of Maintenance

Border Air Ltd

629 Airport Rd.

Swanton, VT 05488

802-868-2822 TEL

802-868-4465 FAX

Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Spot on Cliff, except that you did not mention US customs and Brokerage costs to import.  If you draw the short straw and US customs decides to do an "intensive" inspection with X-ray it could cost you another  500.00 plus a day or two delay.  This has happened to me on the last two aircraft comming in from China.  US brokerage costs are about $250.00. All this via the Port of Seattle.

  

 Gone to Belize in 20 minutes...

 



 

 On Jan 14, 2008 6:42 AM, Cliff Coy <cliff(at)gesoco.com (cliff(at)gesoco.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Cliff Coy <cliff(at)gesoco.com (cliff(at)gesoco.com)> 



Having brought in over 300 aircraft into the states and 40-50 outbound,

here's what I can tell you:



A standard Yak-52 takes 2 men about 4 days to dis-assemble, pack, and

load a container.



KNOW WHO YOUR BUYING FROM AND ASK AROUND. 



I highly recommend purchasing from a known and reputable company.



We normally do a 20% down to secure and load the aircraft.  When the

container is loaded and ready to ship (pictures, container # etc)

 we wire the remaining 80%.  If you're not familiar with the trials and

tribulations of trans-oceanic shipping find someone who is.



Expect about $3500 for the container and about $250 in shipping

insurance.  This doesn't include inland trucking or border inspection 

fees (if yours gets tagged- ~$1000).



Re-assembly is 2 men in 2 days and is done in conjunction with a

condition inspection. We flat rate it.

Expect about $500-$1000 if a DAR is going to certify the aircraft. 

The FAA will do it for free, but certifications are not high on their

list of things to do.



So all told expect about $8500 and 6-8 weeks from container start to

airplane flying.



Hope this helps in your decision. 



Best regards,

Cliff

 

GreasySideUp wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted by: "GreasySideUp" <greasysideup(at)hotmail.com (greasysideup(at)hotmail.com)>



 I know a few of you have bought Yaks from overseas.  A couple of questions. 



 How much does the disassembly shipping and reassembly cost for a Yak shipped over from Germany or Russia?  Also what time frame can I reasonably expect and what have any of you done as far as escrow or payment for buying something like this sight unseen from a foreign country?  Any shipping companies to recommend or to stay away from? 



 Thanks,



 -j





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157783#157783 








	




--

Clifford Coy

Director of Maintenance

Border Air Ltd

629 Airport Rd.

Swanton, VT 05488 

802-868-2822 TEL

802-868-4465 FAX

Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>

  

 

-- 

Always Yakin,

Doug Sapp

Phone 509-826-4610

Fax 509-826-3644   [quote][b]

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

In a message dated 1/14/2008 10:14:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  dougsappllc(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Spot on Cliff, except that you did not mention US customs and Brokerage    costs to import.  If you draw the short straw and US customs decides to    do an "intensive" inspection with X-ray it could cost you another 500.00 plus    a day or two delay.  This has happened to me on the last two aircraft    comming in from China.  US brokerage costs are about $250.00. All this    via the Port of Seattle.

    

   Gone to Belize in 20 minutes...

	


 

 Gone to Belize in 20 minutes?     That means I have  Kathryn all to my self!!!!!!!!!   )))))

  

 Pappy 



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a  

ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping.



No, I haven't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Have you done the math on this one Brian?  I.E., Assuming you put every bit of useful load into fuel and a REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough legs to pull it off?  How much fuel do you think it would be possible to add?  At ANY cost for the fuel tank.  Drawing the line at re-engineering the wings let's say.  



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



 Have you done the math on this one Brian?


	


Twice, but with a different aircraft. A skosh faster than the Yak-52  

but still single engine. I then flew the trips.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I.E., Assuming you put every bit of useful load into fuel and a  

 REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough legs to pull it off?


	


Probably. I don't think there would be any problem doing it in a CJ. A  

Yak-52 would be more of a challenge.



 	  Quote: 	
		   How much fuel do you think it would be possible to add?


	


It is more of a space issue than a weight issue. I would have no  

qualms about going off overgross. I don't plan any acro along the way.  

The key would be how much fuel you could get into the back seat before  

you hit the aft CG limit. Any place else you could put fuel would be  

good too. But you won't need to add as much as you think.



 	  Quote: 	
		   At ANY cost for the fuel tank.  Drawing the line at re-engineering  

 the wings let's say.


	


It is actually possible to cross the Atlantic in an unmodified C-150.  

More fuel means more options for stops but you would be surprised at  

just how short the legs can be. Shannon to Gander is 1700 nm. The  

northern route provide some other options for stops. For example:



Stornoway to the Faroes is about 250nm

Faroes to Reykjavik is about 450 nm (There are a couple strips on E  

Iceland if you want to cut the distance a bit.)

Reykjavik to Kulusuk is about 400 nm

Kulusuk to Sondre Stromfjord is 340nm

Sondre Stromfjord to Qikiqtarjuaq (CYVM), Baffin Is, Canada, is 320nm  

(and I am across the Atlantic, 1760nm)

Qikiqtarjuaq to Iqualuit (CYFB), is 260nm

300nm more and I am at Tasiujaq (CYTQ) in Quebec. It is all downhill  

after that.



So longest leg is 450nm. At 130 kts that is 3.5 hours. Throw in 2  

hours of reserve and I need to carry 5.5 hours of fuel. At 16GPH that  

means I need 56 gallons or 336lb of extra fuel. I don't have my Yak-52  

W&B but I bet one could put that into the back seat without being  

behind the aft CG limit.



I would expect that this would take me a couple of weeks as I have to  

catch the weather windows. Ain't no alternates on this trip. OTOH, WX  

along this route in July/August is pretty good. I wouldn't expect to  

have to wait more than two or three days for WX at any stop.



So, yeah, this is doable. In fact, it sounds like fun. If anyone wants  

a Yak-52 ferried from Europe to the US or Canada, let me know. You pay  

for the ferry tank, all the consumable in the aircraft (fuel and oil),  

my expenses, and a reasonable per-diem, I'll fly it. I'll provide the  

HF radio. Oh, and don't forget the really comfortable custom seat  

cushion from Oregon Aero. 



[quote]



 Mark Bitterlich

 --

bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and flying from the Back?  



 ---

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:13 AM, bill wade wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and  

 flying from the Back?


	


The CJ6A has a few necessary controls that are not replicated in the  

back seat and I believe the Yak-52 does too. (Louvers, oil cooler  

door, and main air valve come to mind here.) I know there is a mod to  

provide the temp controls in the back seat of the -52 but I am  

wondering if there is anything else that is really critical. Nowadays  

I do my Yak-52 flying from the front seat and the back is a bit hazy  

to my mind right now.



BTW, WRT the routing, if I can fly 450nm legs I can jump from Kulusuk  

to Nuuk, bypassing Sondre Stromfjord (big fee there as it is primarily  

military and they extract their Kilogram of flesh to let you stop  

there), and from there on to Iqaluit. That cuts off a leg or two.



Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brianl AT lloyd DOT com             Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

cliff(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Ahh...just take the back stick out and strap in a 30gallon Turtle-Pac.  

200# all up in the back seat.



bill wade wrote:

[quote] What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and 

 flying from the Back?

 ---

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

On Jan 15, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Cliff Coy wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Ahh...just take the back stick out and strap in a 30gallon Turtle- 

 Pac.  200# all up in the back seat.


	


I might want a bit more than 30 gal for this trip. I would actually  

want an additional 55gal or so over and above the standard fuel in the  

wings.



Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brianl AT lloyd DOT com             Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Brian, what kind of lashup do you use for an antenna for the HF?  Tell

me you don't extend a trailing wire?  



Mark

wa3jpy 



--

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

On Jan 15, 2008, at 8:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



 Brian, what kind of lashup do you use for an antenna for the HF?  Tell

 me you don't extend a trailing wire?


	


There are a couple of ways to go but I prefer the trailing-wire-with- 

drogue myself. I used a plastic funnel as the drogue. I can reel the  

antenna in or out to tune it. It works well.



I might do things differently now. I have a couple of automatic tuners  

that do everything for you. I would probably run a wire from the back  

of the canopy to the top of the VS and then out to the right wingtip.  

The tuner will be perfectly happy with that. The antenna is long  

enough to be relatively efficient down to 2.5MHz and the airframe is a  

good counterpoise.



OTOH, one doesn't really need HF when going the northern route. There  

is almost continuous VHF coverage up there.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

dave(at)davelaird.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Turtle-Pac does make a 66 gallon model called the "Drum 66" ....  but  

i don't know if you could stuff it into the back seat!



http://www.turtlepac.com/aircraftferry.htm



Dave Laird

N63536  1983 CJ6A  "Betty"

Dallas  (ADS)





 	  Quote: 	
		   I might want a bit more than 30 gal for this trip. I would actually  

 want an additional 55gal or so over and above the standard fuel in  

 the wings.


	




 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:00 AM, Dave Laird wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Turtle-Pac does make a 66 gallon model called the "Drum 66" ....   

 but i don't know if you could stuff it into the back seat!


	


When last I did this I had to triple my fuel capacity. I did so by  

having custom tanks constructed to fit within the confines of the  

cabin. That is probably the best way to approach this problem with the  

Yak-52, i.e. build a tank that specifically fits in the rear cockpit,  

probably held in with the normal harness. It is amazing what one can  

do with sheet metal. It might even be a two-part tank to allow it to  

be more easily placed in the cockpit.



I would plumb it directly into the fuel system with valve that can be  

worked from the front cockpit. I am not comfortable with tanks that  

depend on electric transfer pumps. Gravity feed to the header tank,  

just like the wing tanks, would be the preferable way to go.



Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brianl AT lloyd DOT com             Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Contact Termikus. They make Aux Ferry tanks that sit in the rear seat of the

YAK-52. Do not how many Liters it holds though.

Doc



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Shipping from Europe to USA

Thanks for the interesting reply Brian.  



Just for kicks someday, you might try experimenting with shunt loading the whole aircraft itself.  This is often done on the tactical aircraft I am associated with and works extremely well.  



Trailing wire systems on an aircraft with fabric control surfaces makes me grimace, but you obviously have more experience with it than anyone else around these days.  



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

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