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Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

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MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Hi Folks,



On the advice of some of you on this forum, I went with the Grand Rapids 

EIS for the Rotax 912 as part of my panel upgrade.



A few questions though to those who have already fitted it.



1) Any problems I should look out for. Any gotchas?



2) It came with two EGT probes but nothing to say where they should be 

fitted. I assume you drill a hole in the exhaust manifold but where. Is 

it wise to drill holes in situ as swarf may end up in the exhaust 

valves. I've gone all this time with no EGT indication so I'm inclined 

not to fit these. What have others done?



3) It looks like you have to use GRT CHT probes (not supplied, Grrr). I 

thought the GRT website said the unit used the Rotax senders or maybe 

that's just oil temp and pressure senders?



Any help would be appreciated.



Regards,

Martin Tuck

Wichita, Kansas

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carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

The positioning of the EGT probes is fairly critical if you want accurate 

readings but ultimately it probably dosent matter as they are normally used 

for comparative purposes (ie: left side vs right side). I believe the 

measurements are given in the Rotax manual.



If you do fit them either fit both on front manifolds or both on rear (not 

one on the front and one on the rear), otherwise you will get different 

readings.



I think from memory the front cylinders run hotter than the rear ones but 

you might check on this. Its best to fit to the hottest ones.



Mine are secured with jubilee clips (sensors poking inside the holes in the 

manifolds).



My engine is a basic 912, not a 912 S.



Hope this helps.



Carl Pattinson

G-LABS

---

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Hi Martin,



I have an EIS 4000, so some of my experience should translate.  I seem

to recall I used the GRT CHT sensors and placed them under the

existing Rotax sensors.  The Rotax CHT senors can be found under the

bottom of the cylinders and there are only two.  I would suggest that

you monitor the same two EHT temperatures as CHT sensors.



I suspect that in the case of the EIS 2004, it should simply work with

the existing Rotax CHT sensors.  For the oil temperature and pressure

I connected mine to the Rotax sensors and it worked fine.



On my 914 it has threaded receptacles on the exhaust pipes and I would

recommend that if you put the hose clip types on a 912 that they

should be roughly in the same position.  I think the 914 maintenance &

parts manual is online so you should be able to get a good idea from

there.



Regards,  Paul

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MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Thanks Paul and Carl for the input.



On further inspection I believe I do possess the Grand Rapids CHT 

sensors after all - the instructions say replace the Rotax sensors with 

10 mm bolts with the sensors under, but as the ring is thin maybe I 

could just put them on under the Rotax sensors as Paul suggests - I 

don't think they would vibrate loose. Anyone else done that?



The Rotax manual does give a EGT sensor position and it should be easy 

to drill a hole to suit the sensors in the left and right front downpipes.



Thanks,

Martin

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rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Hi Martin,



I also recently had to contemplate new, non-rotax CHT probes for my

new Gen 4 Blue Mountain EFIS.  BMA also supplies non-thermocouple

sparkplug ring electrodes.  The problem is that an engine block is 

not simply a homogeneous single temperature when operating. Measuring

from different places will definitely give you different values. Measuring

from a sparkplug or from the outside of the block will give you nice

consistent values, BUT you can NOT apply the official factory limits and 

critical values to those off the mark readings.  Kerry at Lockwood 

confirmed this opinion. Kerry, BTW, is the single most experienced

Rotax A&P in North America to my knowledge (save Eric Tucker).



Rotax CHTs are quite particular due to the metallurgy of the head.  



You could measure both standard probe and your rings together for a

while and find the offset between them and then apply it to new

limits on CHT for your plane.



The easier approach in my opinion (at least it was for me) is to get the

manufacturer to offer a calibration for the standard rotax probes as an

option.  The complete cal curves are available on the VDO site and I was

able to deliver these to BMA.  Its really all they need to let you use the 

original Rotax probes.  The  probes after all use the same technology, just 

different scale factors.

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_________________
Ira N224XS

johnwigney(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Hi Mark,

 

I have been using an EIS 2004 for about 6 years now. I have had no 

problems.

 

Re EGT probes, although I fitted mine to the rear exhaust pipes, I never 

refer to them and I am not sure if they contribute a lot. Perhaps useful 

to troubleshoot a carburetor problem but I have never had that need. I 

think you may do just fine without them and it saves some wiring.

 

I fitted the gasket type CHT probes under two rear cylinder head nuts. I 

am not sure why the CHT probes were not supplied to you. GRT's website 

at http://www.grtavionics.com/model_2004.htm says they are included. I 

connected my EIS coolant temperature wire with a faston type connector 

to the Rotax sender on the lower rear of cylinder no. 3. The oil temp 

sender has a similar connector.

 

As I have mentioned before, I recommend GRT's excellent fuel flow and 

totaliser option. I also have a low fuel pressure sender on the 

auxiliary input - this is intended to give me few seconds warning before 

the engine stops if the filter blocks or whatever.



Wishing you many smooth landings.



Cheers, John

N262WF, mono XS, 912S

Mooresville, North Carolina

 

****************

ORIGINAL MESSAGE

From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com> <mailto:MJKTuck(at)cs.com>

Subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Hi Folks,

On the advice of some of you on this forum, I went with the Grand Rapids 

EIS for the Rotax 912 as part of my panel upgrade.

A few questions though to those who have already fitted it.

1) Any problems I should look out for. Any gotchas?

2) It came with two EGT probes but nothing to say where they should be 

fitted. I assume you drill a hole in the exhaust manifold but where. Is 

it wise to drill holes in situ as swarf may end up in the exhaust 

valves. I've gone all this time with no EGT indication so I'm inclined 

not to fit these. What have others done?

3) It looks like you have to use GRT CHT probes (not supplied, Grrr). I 

thought the GRT website said the unit used the Rotax senders or maybe 

that's just oil temp and pressure senders?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards, Martin Tuck Wichita, Kansas

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rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Happy New Year Europaphiles.



I have used the EIS for 4 years also and have nothing but praise for the

unit although I have found the manual somewhat of a challenge. 



I found the GRT EIS method of fault warning invaluable when I had a baffle

move in the exhaust silencer partially blocking the gas exit. The EIS

flashed a warning when this happened and we were able to diagnose a weak

mixture on full power causing a sudden rise in EGT.  I would use as many

fault indicators as I could in future as it's so easy for the EIS to monitor

them and reliably tell you of faults as soon as they occur. EGT of course

being one of the most immediate indicators of problem.  

Rick Morris



G-RIKS 912S Tri



--

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: Grand Rapids EIS 2004 (Rotax)

Rick

I too am a firm believer in EGT sensing. It is the only thing that gives 

an instant response of an problem. Except fuel pressure perhaps. I was 

cross when factory didn't recommend it in the early days.

Graham

I still get cross with Ivan on occasion. He get's fed up with me too!

We are off on a cruise round S. America next week. Ivan tempted me. 

There will be stony silence from me until March. Peace be upon you all. 

{{{



rick wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I found the GRT EIS method of fault warning invaluable when I had a baffle

 move in the exhaust silencer partially blocking the gas exit. The EIS

 flashed a warning when this happened and we were able to diagnose a weak

 mixture on full power causing a sudden rise in EGT.  I would use as many

 fault indicators as I could in future as it's so easy for the EIS to monitor

 them and reliably tell you of faults as soon as they occur. EGT of course

 being one of the most immediate indicators of problem.  

 

 

 Rick Morris

 

 G-RIKS 912S Tri

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