Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Polybrush help!!!

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

wadegreaves

Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 14

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

I am lost!



I got my spray equipment up to par with a filter/water trap.  Have plenty of line and a good HVLP gun.  Thinned my polybrush out with 65-75 (3:1).  Gun sprays nice and smooth.  I clean the surface with MEK to ensure there is no contaminants....



Then I spray the fabric and it literally looks like water on a well sealed deck.  Doesn't want to settle smoothly.  It will bead up into blobs here and there.  



Could this be due to low air temperature?  That's the only think I can think of.  It is cold here in Oregon right now...in the 30s.  I am heating my hangar up to probably about 50 or so.  The minds at the field seem to think that low temps and spraying polybrush is fine.  

I bought a JP-4 powered forced air heater to get my hangar toasty and am hoping that the warmer air will eliminate this problem.

Anyone else heard of or observed this odd behavior? (not mine...the polybrush's)



Any advice would be great....losing it over here!

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

I did all my spraying at the suggested 70°F or higher...their  

warnings: DON'T SPRAY BELOW 55°!.....DON'T SPRAY ABOVE 95° OR IN HIGH  

HUMIDITY!...Have "the minds at the field" used Poly-Fiber products  

before? Most folks that I talked to around here about using PF  

products were surprised at the restrictions that PF suggests for  

spraying/using their products. I did all of my covering work between  

Dec 2004 and May 2005 in a heated pole barn in Michigan, using a  

dehumidifier inside the paint booth (draped plastic sheeting) when  

humidity was high and a water-soaked floor when it got too low. Did  

you "thoroughly scrub the fabric with MEK or reducer" with a clean  

rag? They get real specific here. Did you brush on the first coat of  

Poly-brush?

I was just reading the instructions over and I noticed: "After  

scrubbing the fabric with MEK or reducer, follow by passing a tack  

rag over the surface to pick up any dust or lint."

I've always worried about using a tack rag too soon after washing the  

surface with a solvent, thinking that the solvent, if not evaporated,  

might pick up something from the tack rag.

That's all I can  think of for now.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/450+ hrs



On Jan 8, 2008, at 3:30 AM, wadegreaves wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <reinagreaves(at)comcast.net>



 I am lost!



 I got my spray equipment up to par with a filter/water trap.  Have  

 plenty of line and a good HVLP gun.  Thinned my polybrush out with  

 65-75 (3:1).  Gun sprays nice and smooth.  I clean the surface with  

 MEK to ensure there is no contaminants....



 Then I spray the fabric and it literally looks like water on a well  

 sealed deck.  Doesn't want to settle smoothly.  It will bead up  

 into blobs here and there.



 Could this be due to low air temperature?  That's the only think I  

 can think of.  It is cold here in Oregon right now...in the 30s.  I  

 am heating my hangar up to probably about 50 or so.  The minds at  

 the field seem to think that low temps and spraying polybrush is fine.

 I bought a JP-4 powered forced air heater to get my hangar toasty  

 and am hoping that the warmer air will eliminate this problem.

 Anyone else heard of or observed this odd behavior? (not mine...the  

 polybrush's)



 Any advice would be great....losing it over here!  [Evil or Very Mad]





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156727#156727

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  It seems like I recall something about application needs to be done  above 70 deg. Not sure what would happen if its colder, doesn't seem like it  should act like your describing. When I first read your post on the  poly spray it occurred to me that maybe you have a timed out batch  too. Just a couple of thoughts.

  

 Dee Young

 Model II

 N345DY

  

 Do not archive 

 [quote]   ---

Donroutledge(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

I used to paint automobiles in a similar environment. Your shop is not  warm enough and therefor the surface you are painting is also too cool..  However, one trick I used was to heat the paint. I would set a bucket of water  on top of the stove and set my paint can in that hot water bath. When the gun  was empty just fill with the pre-warmed paint and shoot.(tie a little bib around  the paint can so the water doesn't run off the can and into your paint gun). You  may also want to use a drop or two of anti-fisheye. Let us know how you solve  the problem. Don, KF+/subie/Tn

  

  In a message dated 1/8/2008 2:33:20 A.M. Central Standard Time,  reinagreaves(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kitfox-List message posted by: "wadegreaves"    <reinagreaves(at)comcast.net>



I am lost!



I got my spray    equipment up to par with a filter/water trap.  Have plenty of line and a    good HVLP gun.  Thinned my polybrush out with 65-75 (3:1).  Gun    sprays nice and smooth.  I clean the surface with MEK to ensure there is    no contaminants....



Then I spray the fabric and it literally looks like    water on a well sealed deck.  Doesn't want to settle smoothly.  It    will bead up into blobs here and there.  



Could this be due to low    air temperature?  That's the only think I can think of.  It is cold    here in Oregon right now...in the 30s.  I am heating my hangar up to    probably about 50 or so.  The minds at the field seem to think that low    temps and spraying polybrush is fine.  

I bought a JP-4 powered forced    air heater to get my hangar toasty and am hoping that the warmer air will    eliminate this problem.

Anyone else heard of or observed this odd behavior?    (not mine...the polybrush's)



Any advice would be great....losing it    over here!  [Evil or Very Mad]





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156727#156727

	




Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

When I painted mine, it was in the winter with outside temps around 30.  I

started out heating the garage to about 60 but had poor results.  One day I

didn't have time to heat the garage and it was at 48 when I painted, it came

out looking great.  When you heat, it changes the humidity which I think

causes more problems with the spray either drying too fast or not fast

enough.



It sounds like you might have a surface prep problem too.   Since JP4 is

like a kerosene, the air can be oily which could ruin your surface for

painting.



Mike Logan

Series 5

Dogwood Airpark

Loving Global Warming



--

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

If memory serves mme corectly. as it gets colder, it takes longer for 

the polybrush to dry.  Adding the 65-75 thinner would take it extremely 

long to dry.  When it gets to be 50 it's already too cold for normal 

painting.  At that temp and below, you would expect a very wet look for 

a long time and then most likely a lot of runs if not painting a flat 

surface.



Try getting the shop and surface temp of what you are painting warmer 

and skip the step of adding thinner or using very little.  Wait a long 

while after wiping with MEK so it can evapoarte out to.  I think that 

would help you.  If you want to paint at 50, be very careful too apply 

too much product at once so that it has a chance to evaporate and dry.  

When you get to the finish coats, at that temp, it will dry to a very 

nice low luster finish as opposed to the usual flat finish.



What you want to do can be done, but be patient and give the product 

planty of time to dry.



I did mine at up to 100 in high humidity in the summer and finished in 

mid winter when the best I could do was keep the paint booth at 50.  I 

made every possible mistake, but with help from Jim and Dondie at 

PolyFiber, I managed to get a real nice paint job out of it.



Just my two cents.  Good luck and happy painitng.



Rick Weiss

Series V Speedster

Now in Daytona Beach but painted the Plane in Maryland.



DO NOT ARCHIVE



--

JohnA

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Woodland, CA

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

Wade,



You should do your first coat of polybrush as a brush on coat.  After 

applying that coat, then you will be applying your tapes, doing a bunch more 

ironing, and then applying your sprayed coats of polybrush, spray, and tone.  

Sort of a waste of effort to shoot the first coat.



I've done polyfiber painting down into the 50's with no problem and in fact, 

if you use polytone for your color, a good trick to get a nice gloss is to 

shoot on a cool day, cool your paint before shooting and use the 8500 reducer 

to slow the set time down.



As for your issued with shooting it... what sort of rag are you using to 

clean with the MEK?  Any silicon in the rag will transfer to the fabric and 

cause problems.



John Alexander

SBX-1/Pearl Harbor



On Tue,  8 Jan 2008 00:30:22 -0800, wadegreaves wrote

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am lost!

 

 I got my spray equipment up to par with a filter/water trap.  Have 

 plenty of line and a good HVLP gun.  Thinned my polybrush out with 

 65-75 (3:1).  Gun sprays nice and smooth.  I clean the surface with 

 MEK to ensure there is no contaminants....

 

 Then I spray the fabric and it literally looks like water on a well 

 sealed deck.  Doesn't want to settle smoothly.  It will bead up into 

 blobs here and there.

 

 Could this be due to low air temperature?  That's the only think I 

 can think of.  It is cold here in Oregon right now...in the 30s.  I 

 am heating my hangar up to probably about 50 or so.  The minds at 

 the field seem to think that low temps and spraying polybrush is 

 fine.  I bought a JP-4 powered forced air heater to get my hangar 

 toasty and am hoping that the warmer air will eliminate this 

 problem. Anyone else heard of or observed this odd behavior? (not 

 mine...the polybrush's)

 

 Any advice would be great....losing it over here!  [Evil or Very Mad]

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156727#156727

 


	




--

Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.  - Ben Franklin

_________________
John Alexander
Woodland, CA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

I doubt very much that it's the temp or humidity causing your problem.  Poly fibre products spray very well in low temps.  Something else is happening there.  I'd call one of the Polyfiber reps and pose the question to them.  There is probably an answer easily available.  If you get one, please share it with us.

Deke

S5, Northeast MI



On Tue,  8 Jan 2008 00:30:22 -0800, "wadegreaves" <reinagreaves(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am lost!

 

 I got my spray equipment up to par with a filter/water trap.  Have plenty

 of line and a good HVLP gun.  Thinned my polybrush out with 65-75 (3:1). 

 Gun sprays nice and smooth.  I clean the surface with MEK to ensure there

 is no contaminants....

 

 Then I spray the fabric and it literally looks like water on a well sealed

 deck.  Doesn't want to settle smoothly.  It will bead up into blobs here

 and there.

 

 Could this be due to low air temperature?  That's the only think I can

 think of.  It is cold here in Oregon right now...in the 30s.  I am heating

 my hangar up to probably about 50 or so.  The minds at the field seem to

 think that low temps and spraying polybrush is fine.

 I bought a JP-4 powered forced air heater to get my hangar toasty and am

 hoping that the warmer air will eliminate this problem.

 Anyone else heard of or observed this odd behavior? (not mine...the

 polybrush's)

 

 Any advice would be great....losing it over here!  [Evil or Very Mad]

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156727#156727

wadegreaves

Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 14

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Polybrush help!!!

Success found it seems!



I did a few things.  



Got a new air line since the old one was used in the days before the filter in case there was any oil in there.



Heated hangar up to a good 65 degrees or so using the heater.



Used a different brand of MEK to clean the surface.  According the Polyfiber, some MEK is recycled carburator cleaner and contains an array nasty contaminants.  



Bought a different brand of cotton rags (Bag'o'Rags).



Those are the variables that made a difference.  Whatever the key one was, it appears to be gone.  



Shot a side of my horz, rudder, elevator, and the top and sides of the fuselage.  Looks great.  Amazing how as you add the layers, stuff you thought would look like crap seem to fade away.  Cant wait to put on a coat of Polyspray after a sanded coat!



Thanks all for the help!

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

I'd try to keep the heat up to that 65 for a good long time, rather  

than doing a lot of cycling of the heat.



I'd bet on the rags.



You mention "as you add the layers"...not too many layers of the Poly- 

Brush, I hope. Two sprayed-on coats over the one brushed-on.



And one more thing..."after a sanded coat" of what? Don't try to sand  

the Poly-Brush!



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/450+ hrs



On Jan 9, 2008, at 3:27 AM, wadegreaves wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <reinagreaves(at)comcast.net>



 Success found it seems!



 I did a few things.



 Got a new air line since the old one was used in the days before  

 the filter in case there was any oil in there.



 Heated hangar up to a good 65 degrees or so using the heater.



 Used a different brand of MEK to clean the surface.  According the  

 Polyfiber, some MEK is recycled carburator cleaner and contains an  

 array nasty contaminants.



 Bought a different brand of cotton rags (Bag'o'Rags).



 Those are the variables that made a difference.  Whatever the key  

 one was, it appears to be gone.



 Shot a side of my horz, rudder, elevator, and the top and sides of  

 the fuselage.  Looks great.  Amazing how as you add the layers,  

 stuff you thought would look like crap seem to fade away.  Cant  

 wait to put on a coat of Polyspray after a sanded coat!



 Thanks all for the help!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156869#156869

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

One more observation, FWIW, from a guy who did not do the fabric on his airplane. I think there may be a tendency among builders, especially with finish coats, to correct errors by spraying on more material. I know I do that all the time in my woodworking. That stuff is heavy. Just pick up a can as a reminder. The more you use, the less you'll carry. 

   

  I love Lola but at 535# EW, she is a bit "full-figured" for a model 2.



Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 



I'd try to keep the heat up to that 65 for a good long time, rather 

than doing a lot of cycling of the heat.



I'd bet on the rags.



You mention "as you add the layers"...not too many layers of the Poly- 

Brush, I hope. Two sprayed-on coats  over the one brushed-on.



And one more thing..."after a sanded coat" of what? Don't try to sand 

the Poly-Brush!



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/450+ hrs



On Jan 9, 2008, at 3:27 AM, wadegreaves wrote:



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wadegreaves" 

 



 Success found it seems!



 I did a few things.



 Got a new air line since the old one was used in the days before 

 the filter in case there was any oil in there.



 Heated hangar up to a good 65 degrees or so using the heater.



 Used a different brand of MEK to clean the surface. According the 

 Polyfiber, some MEK is recycled carburator cleaner and contains an 

 array nasty contaminants.



 Bought a different brand of cotton rags (Bag'o'Rags).



 Those are the variables that made a       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Polybrush help!!!

I sprayed at temps from the mid 40's to 80+ never had a problem, just

have to make sure to brush it on first.



I like Aerothane spraying at cold temp best, because it flows out smooth

as glass at cold temp. 



Jeff Hays

GONER752(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:59:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  msm_9949(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I love    Lola but at 535# EW, she is a bit "full-figured" for a model  2. 	


 

 Geez, here's another one. Your mod.2 is 535 empty? The data plate on my  mod.2 shows 566 empty wt.

 I have got to get her on some scales.It's just your garden variety mod.2  with a 582 and GSC 3 blade. No armor plating or other obvious heavy stuff. I've  often thought about "freshening up" the paint, but I'm starting to rethink that  for the additional weight gain.

 Cheers,

 Greg G.  Macedon,  N.Y.

23NK

n375KL

Mod 2

582

  

 do not archive





Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

pulsair(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

You may want to wipe the cloth lightly with a tack rag. I didn't have any 

luck spraying that stuff below 60 degrees. I would suggest you heat the 

hanger as warm as you possible can and then turn the heater off. I don't 

think the fumes from the Polybrush mix well with an open flame. Don't give 

up, it is not that uncommon. When you say "blobs," are they like small 

beads? Jeff Classic IV CMH



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

MEK is such a robust solvent I think it's the last thing I would use as a tack rag.  I wouldn't want to take the chance on dissolving the polybrush.  I only have ever used a tack rag with the slightest amount of varnish, mostly dry, in it.



Noel

Mod III-A getting 4 stroke 912 power



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: Polybrush help!!!

I had a problem that sounds something like that. I bought my kitfox in 1995. I used the Superflight systems to cover it with. When I sprayed my first coat of primer on the fabric I was shocked ! It looked like I had dirt in the paint. It looked like really really small round beads. Working in a body shop and doing some painting for 26 years I did know a little something about painting. At first I thought I didn't have my fabric clean so I tried another piece. Same problem! Just couldn't figure it out. I knew I was doing everything right. Finally I started looking at the frabic. It was hard to see at first but if you got down and with the right angle and light you could see vary small fabric hairs standing up in the fabric. I called Skystars and they said they had no knowledge of a problem like that. I found out that Stitts supplyed the fabric so I called them. Sure enought they knew about it. They told me that they discontinued that fabric two years  previous because of that problem. I asked if they had a solution or a fix for it. Yes , replace the fabric.You know I wasn't going to do that. They then said that they did have some luck shaving the fabric with an electric razor. Thats what I did. It removed about 95% of the fuzz.The primer went as it should had. I did have to do a little sanding here and there but my paint job turned out very nice !! I know this all might sound a little weird but thats what happened.

                                                         Harold Flynn



jeff puls <pulsair(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff puls" 



You may want to wipe the cloth lightly with a tack rag. I didn't have any 

luck spraying that stuff below 60 degrees. I would suggest you heat the 

hanger as warm as you possible can and then turn the heater off. I don't 

think the fumes from the Polybrush mix well with an open flame. Don't give 

up, it is not that uncommon. When you say "blobs," are they like small 

beads? Jeff Classic IV CMH



---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum