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Searching for the cure, Ethanol

 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Searching for the cure, Ethanol Reply with quote

There have many excellent messages about the perils and use of Ethanol in our aircraft but so far, all we've talked about is the problems.  I don't see Ethanol going away, the problem is just going to get worse. As the owner of both a certified and experimental planes, I would like some advice from the experts as to how we can cope with it.

The Ellison carb seems to be one solution for carbonation. Would a fuel pump and vapor return lines take care of vapor lock? One gentleman suggests a diesel engine is the solution. Not too many options here. Gaskets and o-rings of different materials should be easy to solve. Reduction in power and range is simple, pilot education. For certified aircraft, STC's will be expensive but a must E FAA may have to rethink some of their regs to help solve this but I'll bet the experimental society will get their first.

Who has the answers?

Bob, Wichita
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Searching for the cure, Ethanol Reply with quote

The EAA and AOPA keep pushing state legislatures to exempt premium gasoline from the laws requiring ethanol so that at least some gasoline will be available for use in applications that won't tolerate alcohol. This effort is helped by the fact that airplanes aren't the only application where alcohol can't be used. Many types of watercraft can't use alcohol contaminated gas either due to their fiberglass fuel tanks and other parts of the fuel system that won't tolerate alcohol. A lot of older lawn and garden equipment and farm implements weren't designed for alcohol either. We should have those industries on our side as well. Then there's the fact that very few people use premium gas in their cars, which should help minimize any objections to this idea. If the watercraft industry can convince the governments to exempt marine gasoline, you might be able to get your aircraft fuel from the local marina. If these efforts fail, the only alternative might be to burn avgas and possibly use a lead scavenger. This might be the issue that drives a demand for the new 82UL avgas. The EAA spent a great deal of effort pushing for the creation of 82UL but it doesn't seem to be available anywhere yet.
If you want to burn alcohol fuel in your airplane, design the thing to run on E85 and use that. Otherwise, make an effort to find and use straight gasoline. Mixing small amounts of alcohol in gasoline is just a bad idea.
On Feb 3, 2008, at 10:29 AM, Bob wrote:
Quote:
There have many excellent messages about the perils and use of Ethanol in our aircraft but so far, all we've talked about is the problems. I don't see Ethanol going away, the problem is just going to get worse. As the owner of both a certified and experimental planes, I would like some advice from the experts as to how we can cope with it.

The Ellison carb seems to be one solution for carbonation. Would a fuel pump and vapor return lines take care of vapor lock? One gentleman suggests a diesel engine is the solution. Not too many options here. Gaskets and o-rings of different materials should be easy to solve. Reduction in power and range is simple, pilot education. For certified aircraft, STC's will be expensive but a must. FAA may have to rethink some of their regs to help solve this but I'll bet the experimental society will get their first.

Who has the answers?

Bob, Wichita



--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.



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do not archive.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Searching for the cure, Ethanol Reply with quote

Looks like the best (only?) answer may be 100LL.

Dennis
On Feb 3, 2008 12:19 PM, Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote] The EAA and AOPA keep pushing state legislatures to exempt premium gasoline from the laws requiring ethanol so that at least some gasoline will be available for use in applications that won't tolerate alcohol. This effort is helped by the fact that airplanes aren't the only application where alcohol can't be used. Many types of watercraft can't use alcohol contaminated gas either due to their fiberglass fuel tanks and other parts of the fuel system that won't tolerate alcohol. A lot of older lawn and garden equipment and farm implements weren't designed for alcohol either. We should have those industries on our side as well. Then there's the fact that very few people use premium gas in their cars, which should help minimize any objections to this idea. If the watercraft industry can convince the governments to exempt marine gasoline, you might be able to get your aircraft fuel from the local marina. If these efforts fail, the only alternative might be to burn avgas and possibly use a lead scavenger. This might be the issue that drives a demand for the new 82UL avgas. The EAA spent a great deal of effort pushing for the creation of 82UL but it doesn't seem to be available anywhere yet.

If you want to burn alcohol fuel in your airplane, design the thing to run on E85 and use that. Otherwise, make an effort to find and use straight gasoline. Mixing small amounts of alcohol in gasoline is just a bad idea.



On Feb 3, 2008, at 10:29 AM, Bob wrote:

Quote:
There have many excellent messages about the perils and use of Ethanol in our aircraft but so far, all we've talked about is the problems.  I don't see Ethanol going away, the problem is just going to get worse. As the owner of both a certified and experimental planes, I would like some advice from the experts as to how we can cope with it.

The Ellison carb seems to be one solution for carbonation. Would a fuel pump and vapor return lines take care of vapor lock? One gentleman suggests a diesel engine is the solution. Not too many options here. Gaskets and o-rings of different materials should be easy to solve. Reduction in power and range is simple, pilot education.  For certified aircraft, STC's will be expensive but a must. FAA may have to rethink some of their regs to help solve this but I'll bet the experimental society will get their first.

Who has the answers?

Bob, Wichita


--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.






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