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hangar lighting

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: hangar lighting

There was some discussion last month about hangar lights so I thought 

there might still be some interest in this.



One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal halide low-bay lights 

for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & they appear to be 

high quality. The only downside is this seller sells them in lots of 10 

(4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar).



Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this seller's store to pick 

the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. He's got some that 

are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt.



Charlie

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar.  In general the cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage.  A 240v light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're doing.  220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts explode and then kill you.  High voltage wiring is way more dangerous than flying (which ain't).



Chuck Jensen

--

tomasz(at)korwel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: hangar lighting

That's probably because you can't see neither air nor electricity. Keep 

in mind that in Europe we have 200V in every outlet and 400V (3 phases) 

is nothing unusual in bigger houses. So read some manual, do some risk 

evaluation and go ahead 



-- 

Tomasz



Chuck Jensen wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar.  In general the cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage.  A 240v light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're doing.  220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts explode and then kill you.  High voltage wiring is way more dangerous than flying (which ain't).

 

 Chuck Jensen

 

 

 --

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Don't you think that assessment is a little overstated? 240V will be 

slightly more efficient due to less resistive loss in the wire, but for 

lighting, watts is watts and that's how you get billed for electricity. 

It also raises issues if you will be using existing wiring, if you worry 

about safety (switching issues) and electrical codes (number of conductors).



Since 120V will kill you dead, is 240V really more dangerous? And in 

order to get hit by 240V, you've got to get across both hot legs in the 

circuit. It's much more likely that you'll get between one of the legs 

(120V) & neutral or ground, instead of between the legs. 440V *can* burn 

(if you get between both hot legs), but very few of us is likely to have 

available 277V or 440V in a typical hangar. That's why I mentioned being 

sure to order the right voltage.



Bottom line is that any voltage likely to be used for power in a house 

or building can be dangerous & you should either know what you're doing 

or get assistance.



Thoughts?



Charlie



Chuck Jensen wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar.  In general the

 cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage.  A 240v

 light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v

 unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't

 try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're

 doing.  220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts

 explode and then kill you.  High voltage wiring is way more dangerous

 than flying (which ain't).

 

 Chuck Jensen

 

 

 --

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Hi Chuck,



[quote] --

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Tomasz, electricity does not scare me because I can't see it.  I'm only afraid of the shocking results when one does not exercise due caution.  



To a degree, I should amend the statement about voltage killing--its really amps that does the job.  Low voltage at high amps is still a problem.  In general, when we see 480v service installation, there's usually a couple hundred amps behind it--therein lies the danger.  You are correct that Europe does have higher voltages as a routine matter, but the amps are lower at the same time.  In short the threat does not escalate directly proportional to the voltage increase alone.  Ex. 120v 10 amps is roughly equivalent to 240v 5 amps.



Yes, 120v can kill, but its highly unusual unless you like taking a bath with while blow drying your hair!  We used to have an electrician that would check light sockets by wetting his finger and sticking it in the socket...smiling all the while. No thanks.  But I noticed he didn't check 220v circuits that way....  



Chuck Jensen



Do Not Archive



--

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: hangar lighting

[quote] --

tomasz(at)korwel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: hangar lighting

 	  Quote: 	
		   Yes, 120v can kill, but its highly unusual unless you like taking a

 bath with while blow drying your hair!  We used to have an

 electrician that would check light sockets by wetting his finger and

 sticking it in the socket...smiling all the while. No thanks.  But I

 noticed he didn't check 220v circuits that way....  

Explaining this needs far more text that I'm able to clearly produce in 
	


English, but two things matter:



a) your conductivity

b) path of current through your body.



If you wet your finger and use it to connect two wires the water on your 

finger creates conductive layer _on_the_surface_ of your skin so neither 

  the path is long (1/2 inch maybe) nor the current going through your 

body is big - nothing can happen to you. Different story if you touch 

only hot wire and the current goes through your entire body to the ground.



I remember touching 500V in the laboratory, it was a standard routine 

our professor used to demonstrate how it works. No effects. _BUT_ we had 

highly isolating mats on the floor, so there was no current going 

through us.



Long story short:

a) never work on live circuit

b) if you have to work on live circuit use rated tools and wear your 

boots! (rubber layer on bottom isolates you from the ground)

c) never touch two wires at once



and you'll be safe.



Higher voltage has one good effect - lower amperage requires thinner, 

lighter and cheaper wires and it greatly reduces risk of overheating 

circuit and fire.

-- 

Tomasz

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Chuck,

 "Used" too... ???  Did Sparky  fry himself with a smile on his face?

 Just wondering...

  

 Snip....

 We *USED* too have an electrician that would check light sockets by  wetting his finger and sticking it in the socket...smiling all the while. No  thanks.  

 Snip...

 

Do Not Archive  

   [quote][b]

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Konrad, nope, he didn't fry himself....we just upgraded our electrician  to one that could afford an circuit tester.  

  

 To the  rest of the posters, I acknowledge their correctness in the grounding, circuit  path through the body, et al being important determinant factors whether they'll  write about you on page 7 of the local newspaper with a small picture of you 40  years ago (if you pay extra money).

  

 Electricity is kind of like Tony S.--showing him the proper respect and  you'll have not problem.

 

Chuck Jensen  

 

--

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: hangar lighting

A little electrical theory here.



E = I x R

I = E / R

R = E / I

E=voltage

I=amperage

R=resistance



P = I x E



P=watts or power consumed



If you double the voltage, you halve the amperage for

the same power consumed.



The Edison meter on your house or hangar measures P or

watts.  The only gain by going to a higher voltage is

that you can use a smaller guage wire or put more

lights on a circuit.  There is an efficiency factor

involved with alternating current (AC) called power

factor but with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual

number so using the above formuli works for comparison

purposes.



Dave Nellis

30 years + electrician

7A wings in mid Febb.



--- Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>

 

 Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar.

  In general the cost to run them is inversely

 proportional to the voltage.  A 240v light will cost

 twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v

 unit, putting out the same light, will break the

 bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves

 unless we really know what we're doing.  220v can

 burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts

 explode and then kill you.  High voltage wiring is

 way more dangerous than flying (which ain't).

 

 Chuck Jensen

 

 

 --

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: hangar lighting

In a message dated 1/6/2008 1:53:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  truflite(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The only    gain by going to a higher voltage is

that you can use a smaller guage wire    or put more

lights on a circuit.  There is an efficiency    factor

involved with alternating current (AC) called power

factor but    with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual

number so using the above formuli    works for comparison

purposes.

	


 

 ===========================

  

 You've got your Ohm's law down well, but it drives me nuts when a  30 year electrician still can't spell gauge and formulae. ;o)

  

 Sorry, nothing to do on a stormy day.

  

 Do not archive.

  

 N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon  Valley) 



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

khedrick(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: hangar lighting

Dave



Thanks for the lesson.   I appreciate it.   I am very weak when it comes to

this stuff.



Keith



Do Not Archive

===================================






A little electrical theory here.



E = I x R

I = E / R

R = E / I

E=voltage

I=amperage

R=resistance



P = I x E



P=watts or power consumed



If you double the voltage, you halve the amperage for

the same power consumed.



The Edison meter on your house or hangar measures P or

watts.  The only gain by going to a higher voltage is

that you can use a smaller guage wire or put more

lights on a circuit.  There is an efficiency factor

involved with alternating current (AC) called power

factor but with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual

number so using the above formuli works for comparison

purposes.



Dave Nellis

30 years + electrician

7A wings in mid Febb.



--- Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>

 

 Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar.

  In general the cost to run them is inversely

 proportional to the voltage.  A 240v light will cost

 twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v

 unit, putting out the same light, will break the

 bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves

 unless we really know what we're doing.  220v can

 burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts

 explode and then kill you.  High voltage wiring is

 way more dangerous than flying (which ain't).

 

 Chuck Jensen

 

 

 --

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: hangar lighting

Yeah, I am a good electrician and so so with grammar. 

My wife says she can dress me up, just can't take me

out of the house.  



Dave Nellis



--- Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    

 In a message dated 1/6/2008 1:53:27 P.M. Pacific

 Standard Time,  

 truflite(at)yahoo.com writes:

 

 The only  gain by going to a higher voltage is

 that you can use a smaller guage wire  or put more

 lights on a circuit.  There is an efficiency  factor

 involved with alternating current (AC) called power

 factor but  with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual

 number so using the above formuli  works for

 comparison

 purposes.

 

 

 

 ====================================================

  

 You've got your Ohm's law down well, but it drives

 me nuts when a  30 year 

 electrician still can't spell gauge and formulae.

 ;o)

  

 Sorry, nothing to do on a stormy day.

  

 Do not archive.

  

 N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon 

 Valley)

 

 

 

 **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways

 to stay in shape.     



http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


Looking for last minute shopping deals?

bmeyette(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: hangar lighting

And here's some useful info from his ad:



"If you need help deciding what type lights are right for your application

you can use the following basic guidelines: 1) High Bays with an aluminum or

acrylic reflector are used when your mounting height is 16 foot or above. 2)

Standard Aluminum or Acrylic lowbays are used when your mounting height is

between 10 and 16 foot. If you need a basic layout of your area use the

formula listed below (Length x width) over (Fixture spacing squared)=

Fixtures needed. An average spacing for this fixture is 15 foot. So just

multiply the length times the width of your area and put that number over

225 and you will have a close ideal of the number of fixtures you will need

for a 75 foot candle light level. This is the light level typically used in

Machine Shops and other close work areas. If you have a question please feel

free to email me or give me a call on my 800 number at 800 785 0473."

--

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