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Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

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Why do you scratch build?

Pride of job?

14%

[ 1 ]

Expect to learn more?

[ 0 ]

Save money?

71%

[ 5 ]

Because it is there?

14%

[ 1 ]

I have no idea why...

[ 0 ]

Total Votes : 7

Author Message

DaveC

Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Alvin, TX

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build? I don't know enough yet to make that decision, so I thought I would ask those who had finished their pondering. 



I mean, scratch building takes a lot longer for sure.



So... why do it that way?  



Is it a pride thing?

A personal learning thing?

A climb the mountain 'because it is there' thing?

Is it that much cheaper?

_________________
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-750 wanna-be building Wynne Corvair conversion

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Money can be one of the big motivators and if you have to ask the question and can afford to get the kit you probably should.



Oh and keep in mind that the majority of the folks on the list are never going to see the poll because they get the e-mail version of the list. I don't think they will even see this edited version of my response.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Simple, it's cheaper and being an ex-tradesman, I have the skills. 



Sure you may spend plenty on tools and bits and pieces along the way, but spending a few hundred here and there, with maybe a few thousand occasionally, as in the sheet purchase, is more realistic for me than spending 15000 or 20000 all in one go. 



Make no mistake, if I could afford it, I'd buy the kit outright... engine too. I decided that while I was saving, I could start building. 



Glenn.

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Let's keep in mind, just for those wondering the internet, that you have the option of buying the kit in section and you don't have to get it all at once. Shipping will cost more but it is the option I elected mainly because I wanted to keep my money as long as a could and I didn't have any where to store everything when I started.



 	  Jugle wrote: 	
		  is more realistic for me than spending 15000 or 20000 all in one go. 

Glenn.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

DaveC

Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Alvin, TX

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

[quote="Jugle"]Simple, it's cheaper and being an ex-tradesman, I have the skills. 

[quote]



Not counting tool-up, how much cheaper? 20%? 50%? 80%?



I live near Houston and so would pay no shipping to pick up sheets. Any kind of tool or service is available locally. Saving some $$ on the airframe so that I can spend more $$ on the engine is very attractive to me.



What is not attractive to me is the cut-out. I have a hard time cutting a pie correctly. Taking a pair of shears to a couple-hundred-dollar sheet makes my palms sweat already. Is a matched set of snips the only way to go for all that cutting?

_________________
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-750 wanna-be building Wynne Corvair conversion

Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Let's keep in mind, just for those wondering the internet, that you have the option of buying the kit in section and you don't have to get it all at once. Shipping will cost more but it is the option I elected mainly because I wanted to keep my money as long as a could and I didn't have any where to store everything when I started.

	




No you don't need to get it all at once, but partial kits aren't necessarily the answer... when I bought my sheet the entire amount cost me just on $3000.00 AUD, including freight, as opposed to over $5000.00 for a wing kit or fuselage kit, plus freight. 



The local Zenith agent here wouldn't sell me sections, so it meant partial kits from the United States and that adds up when you are paying freight to Australia.

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Because its fun! I love to build things, been doing it my whole life. So I thought I'd build something cool like an airplane. Yes it is quite a bit cheaper. How much depends on how much you build, do you use the 912S, do you buy the welded parts, or the struts.... There is a materials list on the following link

  http://www.ch701.com   But don't forget wheels, instruments, prop, engine. If  YOU like to build then it's great. If you want to fly real soon buy the kit. Like said above , you can buy sub-kits or you can buy any part that you don't want or can't make.



Kevin

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Last edited by kmccune on Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

I won't be able to tell you how much cheaper, but again, it's because it's spread out over time in smaller payments.



As far as the cut-out is concerned, don't be afraid. Most of it you can do with an Olfa knife or with a router and templates.



But my advice... if you can afford it, buy the kit.



[quote="DaveC"][quote="Jugle"]Simple, it's cheaper and being an ex-tradesman, I have the skills. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Not counting tool-up, how much cheaper? 20%? 50%? 80%?



I live near Houston and so would pay no shipping to pick up sheets. Any kind of tool or service is available locally. Saving some $$ on the airframe so that I can spend more $$ on the engine is very attractive to me.



What is not attractive to me is the cut-out. I have a hard time cutting a pie correctly. Taking a pair of shears to a couple-hundred-dollar sheet makes my palms sweat already. Is a matched set of snips the only way to go for all that cutting?

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

I can afford to purchase the kit and would already be flying it now if I had.  I have two years into the project and half of an airplane built.  This project has been more fun than I have had in a long time.  I can't tell you how good it feels to finish part of the project and hang it up for storage.



Now about myself, I have been building things out of metal most of my life.  Over the past 15 years I have gotten away from the tools and do mostly computer work.  This project has helped me get my metal working skills back in shape and the sense of satisfaction is indescribable    Also have been collecting equipment to continue in this enterprise after retirement.



If you want it quick, don't scratch build.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

I bought the complete kit... reason:  I want to be flying in a timely manner not spend many years building.  I'm retired so I have more time than most so I elected to go for the standard kit rather than the quickbuild.



As to "why scratchbuild?"  I would be surprised if you got the same answer from any of the fellows who are doing it.  I have a friend who is not happy unless he is building or restoring an airplane.  Once he gets it flying he quickly tires of it and sells it, soon starting another.  Other guys are anxious to be done and flying.



You shouldn't be looking to others for a reason, ask yourself 



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Let's be realistic here. If cutting the aluminum makes you nervous the you probably aren't a good candidate for scratch building. And if you can't get over that concern you may not be a candidate for kit building.



Along with the video that lots of folks have suggested go to the Rudder Building workshop. It's what I did and when I went the main thing I was trying to decide was if I had or could develop the skills needed to build the kit. When I started a lot less was done when you bought the kit as opposed to how the kit is delivered now and there was no QBK.



I'd strongly suggest you go to the workshop no matter which path you choose to take it is worth it. Here's a link to more info. http://zenithair.com/events.htm

 	  DaveC wrote: 	
		  What is not attractive to me is the cut-out. I have a hard time cutting a pie correctly. Taking a pair of shears to a couple-hundred-dollar sheet makes my palms sweat already. Is a matched set of snips the only way to go for all that cutting?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

Gig's advice is really good.  The rudder building workshop will answer a lot of your questions.  



Even when you buy the kit there is still a lot of trimming and filing to finish the parts. What helps is that the big pieces like wing skins are cut to size and have #40 pilot holes where the ribs and rear spar go. 

I was no great shakes on cutting aluminum before I started but now I am a real whiz at such things.  It helps to have the right tools and a couple of things I'd put high on my list would be an OLFA P800 knife (see: http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm) for making long straight cuts and a nibbling tool for those really tight spots.



EAA also offers weekend classes around the country that teach basic airplane building skills.  So far I have taken the sheet metal and composites (for working with the fiberglass parts) classes and benefited from both (http://www.sportair.com/)



One additional comment - I chose Zenith because of the quality and completeness of it's kits and the support from the factory.  An added bonus has been the quality of support and encouragement that I've received from the members of this list.



Tim Juhl

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)

My foremost reason was the (lack) of money.

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

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