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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Kolbers,

I ran across this website about a very interesting product that would be very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over North America over hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal Locator Beacon but different, and cheaper I think.

http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx

$170 for the device plus $100/year for the satellite service. If I did the sort of flying that John and John do, I wouldn't leave home without it.

Not a plug just found it interesting.


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Dana



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

At 09:28 AM 1/9/2008, Thom Riddle wrote:

Quote:
I ran across this website about a very interesting product that would be
very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over North America over
hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal Locator Beacon but different...

Isn't that what an ELT's for?

-Dana

--
If it were truly the thought that counted, more women would be pregnant.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

You would think that is what a ELT is for. I attended a form at Oshkosh a
few years ago put on by search and rescue folks. They stated that they
ignore ELT transmissions. I have to assume that is because there are so many
false broadcasts. They start looking for people only when someone calls or
they are over due on a flight plan. Then and only then do they home in on
the ELT broadcast. Now they are switching to new frequencies and want us to
switch. Guess what the new ELTs are more expensive. Will they respond any
better to the new frequencies, I doubt it.

Now maybe thinks have changed with the lower number of flyers these days but
I'm not going to waist my money on the new ELTs. If I start flying over
remote areas I would rather have something like spot.

What do you guys think?

Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Dana,
These new digital units are much more accurate than the older ELTs.

Denny
Quote:
Isn't that what an ELT's for?

-Dana



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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: SPOT Reply with quote

Rick,

Like local FSDOs I think the S and R response to ELT signals varies all over the place. Last year, we accidentally left the ELT on our Allegro turned on after a test and were called by the airport manager within two hours, which is how long it took for them to narrow it down to our hangar.

That said, I think a satellite messenger like the SPOT thing is the way to go. Of course this assumes emergency personnel respond to THAT signal. If the local S and R folks don't respond to ELTs, will they respond to this? Open question, but at least the very precise location data has been transmitted to the folks who should do the S and R. And of course, if you are still conscious you can also activate the notify your family/friends feature which might help spur some action.... unless you are really unloved Very Happy .


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

In re locater beacons -- they're great, and getting better all the
time. Good ones broadcast your position, even if you're unconscious.
Hope never to need it, but I LIKE that!
But look at the marine ones; lots more boating units (EPIRBS) are
sold and the prices are lower for the same features
On Jan 9, 2008, at 1:59 PM, Dana Hague wrote:

Quote:


At 09:28 AM 1/9/2008, Thom Riddle wrote:

> I ran across this website about a very interesting product that
> would be very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over
> North America over hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal
> Locator Beacon but different...

Isn't that what an ELT's for?

-Dana

--
If it were truly the thought that counted, more women would be
pregnant.



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Dana



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Isn't an ELT required for anything other than local flights in any
registered aircraft?

-Dana
--
C:\ Bad command or file name! Go stand in the corner.


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MKIIIX040



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Millinocket, Maine

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Elt's for 2 seaters only.

Vic


"Isn't an ELT required for anything other than local flights in any
registered aircraft?"

[quote][b]


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biglar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

I'm not doing any long flights - yet - but I do do a lot of solo
backcountry hiking and mountain climbing and I've looked at regular
locator beacons. Don't want to pay the price of those things, but this
one looks very interesting. Thanks much.
Lar. Do not Archive.

Thom Riddle wrote:
Quote:


Kolbers,

I ran across this website about a very interesting product that would be very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over North America over hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal Locator Beacon but different, and cheaper I think.

http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx

$170 for the device plus $100/year for the satellite service. If I did the sort of flying that John and John do, I wouldn't leave home without it.

Not a plug just found it interesting.

--------
Thom Riddle
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
- Buddha


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156934#156934




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Russ Kinne



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

ELT's for 2-seaters only? I was required to have them  in  my 4-seat Cessna for years!  Is that only for LSA or  Experimental or what? 
I'm confused.
On Jan 9, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Vic Peters wrote:
Quote:
Elt's for 2 seaters only.
 
Vic
 
 
"Isn't an ELT required for anything other than local flights in any 
registered aircraft?"

Quote:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



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MKIIIX040



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Millinocket, Maine

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Sorry I meant 2 or more

"ELT's for 2-seaters only? I was required to have them in my 4-seat Cessna for years! Is that only for LSA or Experimental or what?
I'm confused."

Vic

[quote][b]


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Bill Vincent



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Hi Thom
That is a great idea. You won't just need to use it in the plane; I can see
it's use for walking in the wilderness.
All my life I thought I was invincible but after injuring myself in a fall
last December; I realized that a person should have a device like the
personal locator beacon because there are many areas where a cell phone does
not work.
Luckily I was close to home when I injured myself, but if I would have been
out in the wilderness all alone, like many times I am, I would not be
writing this letter right now.
Thanks for the tip.
Bill Vincent
FS II
Do Not Archive

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

The old 121Mhz ELT's are pretty much worthless; they were a political
knee-jerk to SAR people not being able to find some political bigwigs &
were designed by politicians. It can take a half-dozen passes (many
hours) by the satellite to get the location in the right *state*. Then
there's the false alarm problem. Some of the certified units can be
triggered unrelated electromagnetic radiation generated by a/c avionics.
Duh...

The new 406 Mhz stuff does seem to actually work. It's much more
accurate, only 1 satellite pass for a fix & if you have one with GPS
built in it's extremely accurate. In a rare fit of allowing
self-determination of our fates, the FAA doesn't currently mandate
buying the new ELTs, they just say they will no longer monitor the old
121MHZ units after the cutoff date. (Some form of certified ELT is still
mandated, but you can buy a cheapo 121 to comply with the law & then buy
a high quality Personal Locater Beacon to enable actual rescue. Downside
is that typical PLBs with GPS are about $1K & up.

Here's a pretty good website describing the various systems:
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

I'd love to know whether the Spot system is using the public
Cospas-Sarsat statellite system. If it is, it might be worthwhile to buy
one even with the 1st year's subscription. If it's hitting the public
satellites, You should get SAR even after the subscription expires.
Anyone want to do the research?

Charlie

Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
[quote]
<NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

You would think that is what a ELT is for. I attended a form at Oshkosh
a few years ago put on by search and rescue folks. They stated that they
ignore ELT transmissions. I have to assume that is because there are so
many false broadcasts. They start looking for people only when someone
calls or they are over due on a flight plan. Then and only then do they
home in on the ELT broadcast. Now they are switching to new frequencies
and want us to switch. Guess what the new ELTs are more expensive. Will
they respond any better to the new frequencies, I doubt it.

Now maybe thinks have changed with the lower number of flyers these days
but I'm not going to waist my money on the new ELTs. If I start flying
over remote areas I would rather have something like spot.

What do you guys think?

Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

> The old 121Mhz ELT's are pretty much worthless;

Quote:
a high quality Personal Locater Beacon to enable actual rescue. Downside
is that typical PLBs with GPS are about $1K & up.

Quote:
Charlie


Hi Charlie:

If the ELT was/is worthless, guess a lot of us wasted our money.

However, I have been located with my ELT on several occassions. Once I
fired it off, as the result of a hard landing. My fault for not checking
121.5 before I shut down the radio. The second occassion was a crash, which
I walked away from, and again forgot to shut down the ELT before I departed
the accident scene. Both times I got calls from the FAA and CAP. Took a
while but they found me.

I have had an ACR Microfix PLB with GPS for almost a year now. Didn't cost
near what you state a typical PLB with GPS cost. Closer to half that. I
use it for flying, dirt biking, ATV, and back country recreation. I am
usually solo, so it is very good insurance for me should I get injured or
stranded, in a critical situation.

There are a lot of up sides to PLB:

1-No annual subscription.

2-Direct link to SARSAT. PLB transmits a unique code that ID's me.

3-My PLB is registered with my info on file for contacts at home as well as
a friend.

4-Small in size and light in weight. Batteries are good for 5 years.

Here is a link to more SARSAT info:

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/

My PLB does not take the place of an ELT in my two place experiemental, but
it should expedite notification and pin point rescue any where in the world
if necessary.

Don't know what I will do when it comes time for a new 406 ELT.

john h
mkIII


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Might Life Alert thingy Work as well ?

Ellery

not archive

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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Ellery:

Good idea!

Is that the one that goes, "Help, I have fallen down and can't get up!"?

I think that is the msg my PLB xmits. Whatever works. Wink

john h
mkIII


[quote]
Might Life Alert thingy Work as well ?

Ellery

[b]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

no i think its like this John, I have fallen and I can't reach my drink ....LOL

Ellery

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David Lucas



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: SPOT Reply with quote

Quote:
Guess what the new ELTs are more expensive. Will they respond any better to the new frequencies, I doubt it.


I understand that these new units not only sent an emergency signal as the old ones did, but also send GPS co-ordinates plus coded info that includes registration, owners name, address & contact number.

So the first action that the authorities take on receiving an ELT signal is ring up the registered owner and check out the status of things, . . . did they go flying, how many, what provisions etc. If the feedback warrants it, they then move on to the next stage.

Sounds like quite an improvement to me.

David.


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lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

Subject: Re: SPOT
Quote:


I understand that these new units not only sent an emergency signal as the
old ones did, but also send GPS co-ordinates plus coded info that includes
registration, owners name, address & contact number.

So the first action that the authorities take on receiving an ELT signal
is ring up the registered owner and check out the status of things, . . .
did they go flying, how many, what provisions etc. If the feedback
warrants it, they then move on to the next stage.

Sounds like quite an improvement to me.

David.


It is my understanding ( more of a question than stating a fact) that they
will not monitor the old frequency after the 09 date, but that they can
still receive the signal if they have info that the plane is down, or didn't
show up. Makes you wonder about Faucett though. Perhaps no one changed the
batteries?
Larry C

do not archive


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:36 pm    Post subject: SPOT Reply with quote

I think I read that PLB's still broadcast on 121.5 for close-in,
short-range locating of a wreck after the main freq on the 'new
unit' has got the rescuers close. I believe airliners will monitor
121.5 for a long time yet. They'll be your best chance of being
heard on 121.5
On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:

Quote:

<lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>

Subject: Re: SPOT
>
> <d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com>
>
> I understand that these new units not only sent an emergency
> signal as the old ones did, but also send GPS co-ordinates plus
> coded info that includes registration, owners name, address &
> contact number.
>
> So the first action that the authorities take on receiving an ELT
> signal is ring up the registered owner and check out the status of
> things, . . . did they go flying, how many, what provisions etc.
> If the feedback warrants it, they then move on to the next stage.
>
> Sounds like quite an improvement to me.
>
> David.
It is my understanding ( more of a question than stating a fact)
that they will not monitor the old frequency after the 09 date, but
that they can still receive the signal if they have info that the
plane is down, or didn't show up. Makes you wonder about Faucett
though. Perhaps no one changed the batteries?
Larry C

do not archive



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