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rudder cam...how big is too big?

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akok

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Randolph AFB, TX

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: rudder cam...how big is too big?

All this rudder cam talk (cool footage by the way Scott) has got me thinking. 



Almost all cameras come with a tripod mount hole in the bottom of them that allows you to firmly attach the camera to a tripod. 



How much airflow disturbance would you create by mounting one of these new, small hard drive HD video cameras on the rudder, or wing, or fuselage?



For example, the Sony HDR-SR1 is 3.1 inches high and 3.3 inches wide, 6.5 inches long and weighs 1.6 pounds. This would take some great video, and you wouldn't need to mess with cords through the fuselage, etc. Granted, you'd want to make sure you weren't flying in nasty weather (which I don't plan on doing, although yes, I know freak storms can appear), as the camera would be exposed to the elements.



You could conceivably build a few different mounts into the skin of the Aircraft and mount the camera in different locations.



i'd be interested to see if folks thinks this is feasible and safe



Thanks!

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LHusky(at)aol.com
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: rudder cam...how big is too big?

Well, I just bought the Sony camera you mentioned.  Although it does  take excellent quality video, and it states that the HD is insulated from shock,  it stops recording when placed on the dash of a Cessna.  Even in smooth  flight, the engine vibration stops the recording.  I can hold it in my hand  and it does great.  If you were to mount it on the plane, it would still  have to have some really good shock absorbers on it.  I work in law  enforcement and there are some really good quality camera's out there that are  really small.  I have put them in all kinds of things from  TV's, clocks, smoke detectors and just inside a plain white  wall.  They give great pictures.   I am going to build a  fairing and have a small camera mounted inside it.  I am planing on 3  camera's.  The total weight of the 3 cameras is about 4 oz.  They  sell a very thin and lightweight wire for these cameras that is also  shielded.  We install them in vehicles all the time.  I will have a  small DVR in the baggage area that will record everything.  I will have a  switch and small monitor on the panel so that I can see what is recording.   Everything weighs approximately 4 pounds.  I will have a cockpit  camera, rudder camera and a landing light camera.  I love to record video,  so that is why I am going with 3 cameras.  I have experimented with these  in a Cessna 172 and it is really good quality.  

  

 Good luck, 

  

 Larry Husky 

 N667H (Reserved) 

  

  In a message dated 1/17/2008 7:37:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  akok(at)fas.harvard.edu writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "akok" <akok(at)fas.harvard.edu>



All    this rudder cam talk (cool footage by the way Scott) has got me thinking.    



Almost all cameras come with a tripod mount hole in the bottom of them    that allows you to firmly attach the camera to a tripod. 



How much    airflow disturbance would you create by mounting one of these new, small hard    drive HD video cameras on the rudder, or wing, or fuselage?



For    example, the Sony HDR-SR1 is 3.1 inches high and 3.3 inches wide, 6.5 inches    long and weighs 1.6 pounds. This would take some great video, and you wouldn't    need to mess with cords through the fuselage, etc. Granted, you'd want to make    sure you weren't flying in nasty weather (which I don't plan on doing,    although yes, I know freak storms can appear), as the camera would be exposed    to the elements.



You could conceivably build a few different mounts    into the skin of the Aircraft and mount the camera in different    locations.



i'd be interested to see if folks thinks this is feasible    and safe



Thanks!





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158945#158945

	




Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

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PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: rudder cam...how big is too big?

I wonder if there's a way to run the recording in a "loop"....?



For example, at any given time the camera's memory would contain footage of the previous 30 minutes.



A rudder cam set up like that would be useful in diagnosing issues during test flights.



Patrick

XL/Corvair

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cgbrt(at)mondenet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: rudder cam...how big is too big?

I would advise caution when adding any (relatively)  large heavy  object to the top of the flying rudder on 701/601 types. The hinge  configuration being low and close together needs to be considered for  stress and what effect the change could have on flutter  susceptibility..

 Carl 701  

 [quote] [b]

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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: rudder cam...how big is too big?

I agree that adding even a small camcorder to the rudder is too much.  You also have to deal with things such as temperature change & humidity, not to mention the 100+ mph breeze - You may come back from a flight and find most or all of your camera missing.



Another minor issue with the rudder cam is if you apply rudder pressure the camera turns away from the direction of flight.  In addition, the small cameras that have been used in such applications typically do not deal with extremes of lighting very well and have shutter speeds that are too slow for such applications.  If it were me, I would mount a small camcorder high in the canopy and use a wide angle lens attachment... that way you could see both what he airplane is doing and what the instruments are showing.



BTW - in the plane I use a Sony HDR-HC1.  I've never had it stop recording from vibration and believe me when I tell you that my 1946 Champ vibrates...



Tim

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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: rudder cam...how big is too big?

Guys, pay attention to the guy who warned against adding any significant 

weight  to the top of the rudder. He's right. If you want to add one of 

those one-ounce CCD "lipstick" cameras, that's fine. Anything over 6 

ounces accidentally put in the wrong place,  in my opinion, is asking 

for flutter or some other aeroelastic/structural issue. Anything you do 

put up there HAS to be on or forward of the hinge line for flutter 

safety. If you want to not have the camera turn when you touch the 

rudder pedals, that's easy. Mount it on a bearing or bushing so it can 

rotate freely and put a small weathervane fin behind it. It will always 

point forward parallel to the flight path.



Use a very tiny camera that weighs an ounce or two, and don't put ten 

pounds of coax cable from that little camera to the cockpit. I'm sure a 

standard two-wire system using small gauge wire will be fine. If it has 

to be shielded, wrap it in half an ounce of aluminum foil not five 

pounds of electrical shielding.



Bill The New Guy



Tim Juhl wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I agree that adding even a small camcorder to the rudder is too much.

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