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Build Problems?

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jlfernan

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 51
Location: MIAMI

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: Build Problems?

I've been lurking here for a few weeks and have noticed something unusual.  Very few of the postings here are for problems. I'm selling a Vans RV-9A QB that I've put approx. 547 hours into building.  I've become very frustrated where it seems every part you put in has to massage in order for it to fit right.  On the Matronics RV list, many of the postings are from people having trouble which I don't see on this list. Are these aircraft that much more builder friendly, is it the factory support or both? Just curious.

_________________
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Build Problems?

Part of it may just be the timing. If you've only been lurking for a  

few weeks, you may not have hit the peak "problem hour". When I  

started to build my Kitfox IV, about 3 years ago, it annoyed me  

greatly that people were talking about flying, and not about  

building, which is what I wanted to read/talk about. I'd post a  

question about building, and check a couple of hours later, and find  

a gazillion posts about speeds, temperatures, prop settings, etc.   

Now that I'm done and flying, I've become one of the annoying  

ones....but I don't want to take ALL the credit.  : )



In reality, the instructions are very good that come with the kit,  

factory support is good, and it's a lot simpler kit to build, from  

what I've seen of the RV's. Of course different skills are required  

between the two makes.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/460+ hrs

do not archive

On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:13 AM, jlfernan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I've been lurking here for a few weeks and have noticed something  

 unusual.  Very few of the postings here are for problems. I'm  

 selling a Vans RV-9A QB that I've put approx. 547 hours into  

 building.  I've become very frustrated where it seems every part  

 you put in has to massage in order for it to fit right.  On the  

 Matronics RV list, many of the postings are from people having  

 trouble which I don't see on this list. Are these aircraft that  

 much more builder friendly, is it the factory support or both? Just  

 curious.



 --------

 Jorge Fernandez

 N214JL Reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159962#159962

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Build Problems?

I'd guess that it has more to do with the shear number of people building RVs compared to Kitfoxes (Anyone know the numbers?). Not to say that more people wouldn't be building Kitfoxes if they could. While the Kitfox design is very mature, the current company hasn't really been around very long and there was a period after the previous company closed shop where you couldn't buy a Kitfox if you wanted to.    



 	  Quote: 	
		  On the Matronics RV list, many of the postings are from people having trouble which I don't see on this list. Are these aircraft that much more builder friendly, is it the factory support or both? Just curious.

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Build Problems?

Having built much an RV7 and now a Kitfox, I would say that the Kitfox is not any easier to built just different.  They are really completely different types of construction.  The RV was a ground up built of aluminum and rivets.  With the Kitfox, the fuse comes built all you do is assemble the sub-assemblies and install them.  The wing is a different matter unless you have the quickbuild wing which mine is thank goodness.  Everybody asks me how I learned to build airplanes and all I say is that I learned to read and follow instructions...all I am doing is assembling an airplane not building or designing.  It is not much different then building my 5-year old's legos (that is a bit of a stretch but really not a lot different until you start making mods, then it gets fun).



The Kitfox support is great and the manual doesn't leave a whole lot to the builders imagination.  I must defend the RV as well, my RV kit was completely pre-drilled and pre-punched so it went together like a puzzle and was a joy to build...actually, I wish I still had it and plan to build another in a couple years.



Both are awesome airplanes...completely different in their construction and mission.

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Build Problems?

I'm building a Zenith 801, and have already built a series 5 Kitfox. I think

a lot has to do with your own expectations.



I originally expected that these kits would be high quality, the parts would

fit well, etc. So I was encountering difficulties all the time, and was 

frustrated a lot.



Then I changed my mind set to - OK these aren't really kits at all

but a loose collection of semi-formed parts, and an even looser set of

crude notes  that are called "instructions". With people who don't 

neccesarily care if you finish it, providing support  (since they already 

got your money for the stuff) 



After I made that mental switch I no longer have nearly as many problems

because I don't expect anything to fit right any longer, and I don't expect

anybody to help me either so now I'm mentally prepared for the worst

going into each part of the project, everything now just seems so much easier. 



Helping my kids with Lego projects, now THAT is the real challenge!



Regards,

Jeff Hays

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: Build Problems?

Darin, Which RV will you build? When I get my Kitfox rebuild done, I'd like an RV4.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Build Problems?

 From: gerns25(at)netscape.net

 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:01:04 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>

 

 Having built much an RV7 and now a Kitfox, I would say that the Kitfox is not any easier to built just different. They are really completely different types of construction. The RV was a ground up built of aluminum and rivets. With the Kitfox, the fuse comes built all you do is assemble the sub-assemblies and install them. The wing is a different matter unless you have the quickbuild wing which mine is thank goodness. Everybody asks me how I learned to build airplanes and all I say is that I learned to read and follow instructions...all I am doing is assembling an airplane not building or designing. It is not much different then building my 5-year old's legos (that is a bit of a stretch but really not a lot different until you start making mods, then it gets fun).

 

 The Kitfox support is great and the manual doesn't leave a whole lot to the builders imagination. I must defend the RV as well, my RV kit was completely pre-drilled and pre-punched so it went together like a puzzle and was a joy to build...actually, I wish I still had it and plan to build another in a couple years.

 

 Both are awesome airplanes...completely different in their construction and mission.

 

 --------

 Darin Hawkes

 Series 7 (under Construction)

 914 Turbo

 Kaysville, Utah

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159987#159987

 

=========

 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Build Problems?

As I cannot personally start a new thread I due to administration applied restrictions, I am tagging the following Kitfox related link on this existing one...... Enjoy!

  

 Well done JM.

  

 http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=0641211e-e487-48e2-97df-910463f70357&

  

 Steve Benesh

 "5" 912UL

  [quote]   	  Quote: 	
		  



	




[b]

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Build Problems?

Pat,



I haven't completely decided.  Part of me wants an RV10 so I can take my family along on vacations, but the other part wants an RV8.  My wife and boys like to fly next to me not behind so that is the reason I did the 7 the first time around.  Who knows, there are a couple F1 Rockets around here and those look like a ton of fun also.  Time will tell but I have a feeling it will be a 10.

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Build Problems? MC Bean TV

 	  Quote: 	
		  As I cannot personally start a new thread I due to administration applied restrictions, I am tagging the following Kitfox related link on this existing one...... Enjoy! 



Well done JM. 



http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=0641211e-e487-48e2-97df-910463f70357& 



Steve Benesh 	




Good article John Mc Bean,



Like John said " we are business men"  I think the Moderators should change their attitude if they want this list to continue strong. I get many emails  asking what is happening on the Kitfox list ?  

This list should be for all to help each other not just to say when a topic has been ordered be shut down  because someone does not want to read about it or whatever. 

I think that Matt Dralle  should be concerned as he likely gets thousands of dollars if not tens of thousands of dollars from "donations" annually . 



I said my peace.

_________________
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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Build Problems?

 	  Quote: 	
		  I've become very frustrated where it seems every part you put in has to massage in order for it to fit right. On the Matronics RV list, many of the postings are from people having trouble which I don't see on this list. Are these aircraft that much more builder friendly, is it the factory support or both? Just curious. 	




Jorge, the rule that lets us fly airplanes we build ourselves says the purpose is for "Education and recreation".  The building part is heavy on education and the flying part is heavy on recreation.  Also we must fabricate, not just assemble factory made parts to meet the "Major portion" of the amateur built requirement.



My experience with building the Kitfox was that the construction manual was very complete and easy to understand and follow.  There is some massaging of parts and sometimes it takes a while to make a part fit perfectly.  Being built from "Bed sheets and broom sticks", so to speak, this was not the case for most and definetly not a lot of my Kitfox parts. There were a few steps that stumped me for a while and I had to talk with the factory a few times to get it figured out.  Most often I got the help I needed right here on the kitfox list.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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