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gyoung

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396.  My 396 loses it's location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a  weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new  location - but at least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a  couple times and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge  the satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will  flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open for  30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so they tell  me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...  aaarrggghhh!

  

 Regards,

Greg Young

  



 [quote]         From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill    Boyd

Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:13 PM

To:    rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: APRS tracking technology    as alternative to SPOT

   

Replying to my own post, here-  too many things wrong with the    flight so I stood down.  Garmin 296 wouldn't lock onto more than 2 birds,    and thought the local time was 11:36 AM, so it acts like the internal battery    is going south (flown as recently as last week) - but the unit powers up fine    on the bench using just its own battery, as I write this.  Directional    control on the snow was awful, even though there was lots of grass showing -    just too much cover.  I think I packed the wheel pants with snow in short    order.  I couldn't even hold brakes against a 1600 rpm run-up without    sliding.  When I was about 50% beyond my normal rotation point and still    hadn't broken ground, weaving like a taildragger pilot in a crosswind (gulp!)    I balked the takeoff.  Barely had enough braking action to execute a 180    within the width of the strip. 



This is disappointing, since I wanted    to fly tonight and wanted to demo the APRS, but I guess I get an "A" for    decision making.  Even if I had had hull coverage I don't think I could    have felt good about completing that takeoff, knowing I'd have to return to    that  same runway in a few minutes and try to stop safely, possibly with    frozen brake pads.  The weather is supposed to turn here tonight, so that    was probably my one window to fly for the next week or two.  Snow    expected again tomorrow and a deep freeze on top of that.  Should stay    mushy out there till about April even if the snow dissipates.  Some days    are like that. 



I'll post a heads-up if /when I try the airborne APRS    again.  Meanwhile I'm going to have harsh words with my    296.



-Stormy



[b]

d-burton(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge the satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open for 30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so they tell me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair... aaarrggghhh!  

   

Bummer.  One of our 430s had the same issue after we got it back from sending it in for the WAAS upgrade and it had to go back to the factory.  Fortunately it was under warranty.  Any chance the internal battery is losing its steam?  Does anybody know if the battery pack contributes to holding memory while the power is off?  

   

DaveB    

   

  [quote] [b]

darnpilot(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

My 496 has started to do the same thing.  Internal battery is fine, at least it shows full and will run on battery power.  I have it panel mounted (AirGizmo) and hooked up to ships power.  Based on the log it seems to stop the internal clock a day or two after the last shut-down.  Upon restart, it will not lock the satellites as it thinks it is a prior date.  I do not think it could be the almanac, it has something to do with the internal clock shutting down.  The almanac is useless if the GPS does not know what the actual date.  

 

 My shop just checked it out and loaded the latest update (that's what they think it is).  They also purged a lot of the logs to free up memory, which did sound like a good idea.  If the date is wrong the next time I fly, and based upon the reports I'm hearing, then I think (we) Garmin has a software/hardware issue that they need to address.

 

 Anyone else having similar problems? 

 

 Jeff

 

 

 --

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I haven't flown much over the last few years and my Garmin  296 has proably only been on about a dozen flight altogether. The last one was  last July. i fired it up the other day and it thought it was September. However  as soon as it acquired satellites, the date was adjusted. 

  

 Is there any possibility there's an antenna problem and not  a battery problem?



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  darnpilot(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:37  AM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Garmin  296/396 losing location

 

My 496 has started to do the same thing.  Internal battery  is fine, at least it shows full and will run on battery power.  I have it  panel mounted (AirGizmo) and hooked up to ships power.  Based on the log it  seems to stop the internal clock a day or two after the last shut-down.   Upon restart, it will not lock the satellites as it thinks it is a prior  date.  I do not think it could be the almanac, it has something to do with  the internal clock shutting down.  The almanac is useless if the GPS does  not know what the actual date.  



My shop just checked it out and  loaded the latest update (that's what they think it is).  They also purged  a lot of the logs to free up memory, which did sound like a good idea.  If  the date is wrong the next time I fly, and based upon the reports I'm hearing,  then I think (we) Garmin has a software/hardware issue that they need to  address.



Anyone else having similar  problems? 



Jeff

--

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

darnpilot(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I do not see how it could be the antenna.  In my case (G496), it is looking for the satellites just fine, but it takes a long time because its looking for them in the wrong parts of the sky because it thinks the date & time are something they are not.  Once it gets an update to the internal clock (from one of the satellites it eventually finds) it can reference the almanac and then find the correct constellations of satellites.  After that is pretty quickly get back to square one and starts working...at least until it is shutdown again for more than a few days.

 

 I started noticing this behavior back in July.  Any others?

 

 Jeff

 

 

 --

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

Nope.  Antennas are not the problem- the unit sees the birds fine- it's just looking for all the wrong ones at first, based on the almanac and the faulty date/time.  I'm baffled how a device that depends on ultra-precise time measurements to do its job can't keep time as well as a five dollar Chinese wristwatch when it's in standby mode.  Garmin does seem to have an issue, here. 



-Stormy



On Jan 19, 2008 8:58 AM, Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote]      I haven't flown much over the last few years and my Garmin  296 has proably only been on about a dozen flight altogether. The last one was  last July. i fired it up the other day and it thought it was September. However  as soon as it acquired satellites, the date was adjusted. 

  

 Is there any possibility there's an antenna problem and not  a battery problem?



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of  darnpilot(at)aol.com (darnpilot(at)aol.com)

Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:37  AM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)



Subject: Re: Garmin  296/396 losing location

 

My 496 has started to do the same thing.  Internal battery  is fine, at least it shows full and will run on battery power.  I have it  panel mounted (AirGizmo) and hooked up to ships power.  Based on the log it  seems to stop the internal clock a day or two after the last shut-down.   Upon restart, it will not lock the satellites as it thinks it is a prior  date.  I do not think it could be the almanac, it has something to do with  the internal clock shutting down.  The almanac is useless if the GPS does  not know what the actual date.  



My shop just checked it out and  loaded the latest update (that's what they think it is).  They also purged  a lot of the logs to free up memory, which did sound like a good idea.  If  the date is wrong the next time I fly, and based upon the reports I'm hearing,  then I think (we) Garmin has a software/hardware issue that they need to  address.



Anyone else having similar  problems? 



Jeff

--

riffeljl(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

You might want to see if one of your nav/coms is interferring.  My Com2 interfers w/ my handheld when it's on a certain freq range (around 115.+-)

  

 You might try this. When your GPS looses position, try watching your GPS signal strength page as you turn each avionics unit.

  

  [quote][b]

darnpilot(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

Not likely.  My installation worked perfectly up until July of this year (no changes were made).  Since July, it has frozen the time shortly (within a day or two) after shutdown.  There is something going on internally...software or hardware.  Since I do not seem to be the only one, I must conclude that this is not an uncommon occurrence and there is a larger problem that Garmin has to address.

 

 Jeff

 

 

 --

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

Look into internal battery replacement.  I can't say that it is the  cause but

 it may be a reasonable factor.

  

 Ron Lee

    [quote][b]

darnpilot(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

OK...is there an internal battery other than the rechargeable one?  If there is, then I agree.

 

 Jeff

 

 

 --

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I don't know.  I just removed the AA batteries for about eight minutes  and when I put

 new ones in and checked the time (inside under a desk to prevent signal  acquisition),

 the time was to within a second of my PC time.  That suggests another  power source.

  

 Ron Lee

 [quote]   ---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I just removed the AA batteries for an hour and the time was within  about

 two seconds of my PC time.  This is in a Garmin eTrex unit.

  

 Ron Lee

 [quote] [b]

brian.kraut(at)engalt.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

A lot  of GPSs have small lithium coin cells in them.  They are good for about 5  years.  The real problem with them is after they get real old they can leak  and corrode the circuit boards.

  

 

Brian Kraut

Engineering Alternatives, Inc.

www.engalt.com   [quote]   --

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

Send it to them if you can't figure it out..their service is excellent..they turned mine around in a few days, installed a new screen (mine had a small scratch) and even gave me a new Jeppesen database.  No charge, and no questions asked!



Paul Besing



---

rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I don't know about the 396 but I had the same problem with a Garmin GPS III Pilot.  There is a coin size battery which is epoxied to the inside of the case with leads going to the circuit board.  This battery keeps the real time clock powered when the main batteries are discharged.  My battery went bad and every time the GPS was powered down it would lose track of the almanac, even though I had fresh AA batteries in it.  I didn't look at the board to see how the coin battery is charged but I found a replacement and fixed mine.  I suspect the 396 also has an internal coin-sized battery for the RTC and yours is probably dead also.   



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.



On Jan 18, 2008 6:36 PM, Greg Young <gyoung(at)cs-sol.com (gyoung(at)cs-sol.com)> wrote:

[quote]      I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396.  My 396 loses it's location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a  weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new  location - but at least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a  couple times and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge  the satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will  flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open for  30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so they tell  me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...  aaarrggghhh!

  

 Regards,

Greg Young

  



  	  Quote: 	
		           From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)    [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bill    Boyd

Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:13 PM

To:    rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: APRS tracking technology    as alternative to SPOT

   

Replying to my own post, here-  too many things wrong with the    flight so I stood down.  Garmin 296 wouldn't lock onto more than 2 birds,    and thought the local time was 11:36 AM, so it acts like the internal battery    is going south (flown as recently as last week) - but the unit powers up fine    on the bench using just its own battery, as I write this.  Directional    control on the snow was awful, even though there was lots of grass showing -    just too much cover.  I think I packed the wheel pants with snow in short    order.  I couldn't even hold brakes against a 1600 rpm run-up without    sliding.  When I was about 50% beyond my normal rotation point and still    hadn't broken ground, weaving like a taildragger pilot in a crosswind (gulp!)    I balked the takeoff.  Barely had enough braking action to execute a 180    within the width of the strip. 



This is disappointing, since I wanted    to fly tonight and wanted to demo the APRS, but I guess I get an "A" for    decision making.  Even if I had had hull coverage I don't think I could    have felt good about completing that takeoff, knowing I'd have to return to    that  same runway in a few minutes and try to stop safely, possibly with    frozen brake pads.  The weather is supposed to turn here tonight, so that    was probably my one window to fly for the next week or two.  Snow    expected again tomorrow and a deep freeze on top of that.  Should stay    mushy out there till about April even if the snow dissipates.  Some days    are like that. 



I'll post a heads-up if /when I try the airborne APRS    again.  Meanwhile I'm going to have harsh words with my    296.



-Stormy





	


[b]

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

Good thought.  Any problem with opening these things up for user service (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case to mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?



-Stormy



 On Jan 19, 2008 10:54 PM, Bob J. <rocketbob(at)gmail.com (rocketbob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] I don't know about the 396 but I had the same problem with a Garmin GPS III Pilot.  There is a coin size battery which is epoxied to the inside of the case with leads going to the circuit board.  This battery keeps the real time clock powered when the main batteries are discharged.  My battery went bad and every time the GPS was powered down it would lose track of the almanac, even though I had fresh AA batteries in it.  I didn't look at the board to see how the coin battery is charged but I found a replacement and fixed mine.  I suspect the 396 also has an internal coin-sized battery for the RTC and yours is probably dead also.   



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.



On Jan 18, 2008 6:36 PM, Greg Young <gyoung(at)cs-sol.com (gyoung(at)cs-sol.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		        I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396.  My 396 loses it's location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a  weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new  location - but at least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a  couple times and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge  the satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will  flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open for  30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so they tell  me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...  aaarrggghhh!

  

 Regards,

Greg Young

  



  	  Quote: 	
		           From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)    [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bill    Boyd

Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:13 PM

To:    rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: APRS tracking technology    as alternative to SPOT

   

Replying to my own post, here-  too many things wrong with the    flight so I stood down.  Garmin 296 wouldn't lock onto more than 2 birds,    and thought the local time was 11:36 AM, so it acts like the internal battery    is going south (flown as recently as last week) - but the unit powers up fine    on the bench using just its own battery, as I write this.  Directional    control on the snow was awful, even though there was lots of grass showing -    just too much cover.  I think I packed the wheel pants with snow in short    order.  I couldn't even hold brakes against a 1600 rpm run-up without    sliding.  When I was about 50% beyond my normal rotation point and still    hadn't broken ground, weaving like a taildragger pilot in a crosswind (gulp!)    I balked the takeoff.  Barely had enough braking action to execute a 180    within the width of the strip. 



This is disappointing, since I wanted    to fly tonight and wanted to demo the APRS, but I guess I get an "A" for    decision making.  Even if I had had hull coverage I don't think I could    have felt good about completing that takeoff, knowing I'd have to return to    that  same runway in a few minutes and try to stop safely, possibly with    frozen brake pads.  The weather is supposed to turn here tonight, so that    was probably my one window to fly for the next week or two.  Snow    expected again tomorrow and a deep freeze on top of that.  Should stay    mushy out there till about April even if the snow dissipates.  Some days    are like that. 



I'll post a heads-up if /when I try the airborne APRS    again.  Meanwhile I'm going to have harsh words with my    296.



-Stormy





	




	
[b]

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

Bill, this is a good thread.  On my Etrex, I saw no way to replace any  internal

 battery. The same applies to my Lowrance Airmap 500.  Hopefully this  is not

 some insidious planned obsolescence issue.

  

 I think I will call Garmin and ask about this issue and costs.

  

 Perhaps I will check the user manual for any info.

  

 Ron Lee

  

  

 [quote]    

   



Good thought.  Any problem with opening these things up    for user service (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a    nitrogen-filled case to mitigate condensation, that might be    ruined?



-Stormy



[b]

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I found this in the Lowrance Airmap 500 manual (page 11)

  

  

"Flash memory and an internal  lithium battery will keep your stored 

data safe and accessible for the life of the  product."

    [quote][b]

d-burton(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

I can’t speak to the 396 series.  The 195s were sealed like a waterproof watch and are fairly waterproof.  Garmin says that you can’t open them up, but I split mine in half to semi-permanently mount it into the instrument panel with no problem.  This was in the early days of GPS and people were stealing them like crazy…  

   

I have no idea if Garmin tries to purge them with Nitrogen before sealing them.  The best advice I have for those who live in humid climates it to crank up the air conditioner and reassemble the GPS (I do this when putting my camera into the underwater camera housing) with it near the dry cooled air.  Easy and works perfectly for diving.  Should be good for the GPS too.  

   

DaveB  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd

 Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:46 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location  

  

   

Good thought.  Any problem with opening these things up for user service (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case to mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?

 

 -Stormy  [quote] [b]

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Garmin 296/396 losing location

No problem- they're forecasting 8 degrees F tonight; I'll just reassemble it outside 



-Stormy



On Jan 20, 2008 2:16 PM, David Burton < d-burton(at)comcast.net (d-burton(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote]               

I can't speak to the 396 series.  The 195s were sealed like a waterproof watch and are fairly waterproof.  Garmin says that you can't open them up, but I split mine in half to semi-permanently mount it into the instrument panel with no problem.  This was in the early days of GPS and people were stealing them like crazy…  

   

I have no idea if Garmin tries to purge them with Nitrogen before sealing them.  The best advice I have for those who live in humid climates it to crank up the air conditioner and reassemble the GPS (I do this when putting my camera into the underwater camera housing) with it near the dry cooled air.  Easy and works perfectly for diving.  Should be good for the GPS too.  

   

DaveB  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) ] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd

 Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:46 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location  

  

   

Good thought.  Any problem with opening these things up for user service (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case to mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?

 

 -Stormy   	  Quote: 	
		   	


        	  Quote: 	
		  



t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

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