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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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Hi John,
I did not know you had a G Meter, but here is a question I have been wondering about for a long time, and I bet you have the answer.
On one of those normal summer days in Alabama, mid day when the cumulus clouds are growing pretty big, no storms, but just one of those summer days when the thermals kick the carp out of the Kolb.. How many G's does this type of Turbulence put on the airframe ?
And one more question, in really bad, unusually bad turbulence, how many G's are you seeing ?
Mike
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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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> I did not know you had a G Meter, but here is a question I have been
wondering about for a long time, and I bet you have the answer.
> Mike
Mike B:
Can't answer another set of questions until I find out if you believe I can
glide my mkIII to the ground while performing 90 and 180 high banked turns
and never pull over 1 g. ;-(
Turbulence in the SE in nothing in comparison to turbulence out West,
especially in the Rockies. Never seen more than +3.5 g's or -2 g's. That
is more than enough to be quite painful, especially in my neck. -2 g's will
shut down the engine momentarily as the floats are forced closed and the
engine is starved for fuel. It will also shuffle all my stuff from the left
seat to the roof of the cabin and back down, not necessarily to the left
seat, but all over the damn airplane. At times like this I hold on to the
seat pan with my left hand and cinch the harnesses up tight. When it gets
too uncomfortable to fly, I find a nice little airport and take a nap.
john h
mkIII - 2,731.9 hours
912ULS - 163.4 hours
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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Did you have any problems with control in turbulence that severe ? What speed were you flying at.
3.5 and -2 is more than I expected. What kinds of loads do you see on a typical summer day in the southeast, when you are getting beat up, but the turbulence is knocking you around but not severe ?
Mike
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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: Re: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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| JetPilot wrote: | Did you have any problems with control in turbulence that severe ? What speed were you flying at.
3.5 and -2 is more than I expected. What kinds of loads do you see on a typical summer day in the southeast, when you are getting beat up, but the turbulence is knocking you around but not severe ?
Mike |
For what it's worth,
I got into stuff similar to this in the FS II in a flight in TX. At one point I had the stick all the way over to the left and the left pedal all the way down and the plane was still going to the right. Got down on the ground ASAP to say the least.
When I flew my titan back from nebraska last spring, I was in heavy turbs over almost all of Kansas (clear, warm day). My stuff in the back seat was tied down, but I was occassionally being tossed up into the straps .Altitude excursions were 200' sometimes and unwanted bank angles up to 20 or more degress would happen.
Even slowed down sometimes to 85mph to keep the hammering down, I don't recall ever having to put any control to a stop.
But... my point being...... I'm with John on this - when it gets like that I prefer to be on the ground  . I pressed on because there were no airports and I was still well in control of the plane, but I was eying alternative landing spots on the GPS and the charts in case it kept getting worse.
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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| Quote: | Did you have any problems with control in turbulence that severe ? What
speed were you flying at.
3.5 and -2 is more than I expected. What kinds of loads do you see on a
typical summer day in the southeast, when you are getting beat up, but the
turbulence is knocking you around but not severe ?
Mike
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Mike B:
No control problems, for the most part, but does get exciting at times.
Normally slow down from 85 mph to what ever is most comfortable for me and
the mkIII.
Turbulence in the SE? Tubulence is tubulence. Some greater than others. I
don't know haven't paid that much attention to it.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Re: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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| John Hauck wrote: |
Mike B:
No control problems, for the most part, but does get exciting at times.
Normally slow down from 85 mph to what ever is most comfortable for me and
the mkIII.
Turbulence in the SE? Tubulence is tubulence. Some greater than others. I
don't know haven't paid that much attention to it.
john h
mkIII |
I can sort of answer this.
Lived in central TX for 30 years, did all my flying there until a year ago when I moved to northern new mexico.
judging by the FS II, the turbulence here I would say is significantly worse especially when the wind puts you downwind of some mountain range (obviously). When the wind blows, it blows a fair bit harder.
However, we get a lot more breaks here for a lot larger part of the year. Also the weather and climate is so much better you don't really care - you're just so happy to not be covered with sweat and being eaten alive by fire ants while on the ground a little more wind doesn't bug you that bad.
I'd have to say here in the southern rockies most of the turbulence aloft is mechanical turbs off the mountains. on a recent trip to taos, I hit some really strong turbs aloft and sure enough the mountains to the NW were right in between me and the wind. That stuff was bad enough that I decided to turn around.....
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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jb92563
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
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G-Loading on the airframe goes up with the speed squared.
Thats why slowing down even a little reduces the G loading in turbulence considerably.
Ever heard of "Rough Air Speed" or "Manuvering Speed" or Va
Its the design maneuvering speed, stalling speed at the maximum legal G-force, and hence the maximum speed at which abrupt, full deflection, elevator control input will not cause the aircraft to exceed its G-force limit.
There is no set answer as it depends on each aircraft weight and speed, but slowing down certainly reduces the G-Loads.
Turbulence can be fun, especially when you know what causes it and where it is to be found, and just as important (When you trying to eat, drink or pee in flight) where it is not typically found.
Typical sources of Turbulence are Thermals(Fun), Mountain Lee rotor(Not fun), Mechanical turbulence on windy days due to ground features(Not Fun during landing), Weather System Fronts(Sometimes Fun if your belts are tight), Aircraft wake(Way not fun) etc
Thats my take on it as a glider pilot and UltraStar owner.
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Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider
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