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Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Not really kolb related

A kolb is sitting on a runway which is actually a giant treadmill.

Just as the pilot throttles up and begins to move forward, the treadmill

begins running in the opposite direction. No matter how fast the airplane

tries to move forward, the treadmill will match its speed in the 

opposite direction.



Will the airplane ever take off?



Finally answered



---------------------------------------------------------------



do not archive

http://boortz.com/more/video/mythbusters_plane_conveyor_belt.html

_________________
Possum

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Not really kolb related

Yes,     



Ron (Arizona)



=================================

---- possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: 



=============


A kolb is sitting on a runway which is actually a giant treadmill.

Just as the pilot throttles up and begins to move forward, the treadmill

begins running in the opposite direction. No matter how fast the airplane

tries to move forward, the treadmill will match its speed in the 

opposite direction.



Will the airplane ever take off?



Finally answered



---------------------------------------------------------------



do not archive

http://boortz.com/more/video/mythbusters_plane_conveyor_belt.html

--

kugelair.com

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Not really kolb related

I guess the prop blast over the wing and elevator make that possible!



But the guy did have forward speed exceeding the rearward speed of the belt so I figure he cheated a bit by having not only full prop blast but also some additional forward speed.



Still the answer remains YES however.



Bernoulli effect in action!

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

indyaviator(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

It's not the prop blast.  The plane is pulling itself through the air.  The only thing different than a normal takeoff is the rotational speed of the wheels.  The rest of the plane doesn't know it is on a belt. 

 

Bryan D

do not archive

On Jan 31, 2008 6:47 PM, jb92563 <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jb92563" <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)>



I guess the prop blast over the wing and elevator make that possible!



But the guy did have forward speed exceeding the rearward speed of the belt so I figure he cheated a bit by having not only full prop blast but also some additional forward speed.

 

Still the answer remains YES however.



Bernoulli effect in action!



--------

Ray



Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)

Moni MotorGlider

Schreder HP-11 Glider

Riverside County, CA



Do Not Archive

 



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161681#161681



  [quote][b]

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

I don't think so. Thwe wing has no speed  through the air -- hence no lift



On Jan 31, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Ron wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <captainron1(at)cox.net (captainron1(at)cox.net)>

Yes,     

Ron (Arizona)

=================================

---- possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net (possums(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: 

=============

--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net (possums(at)bellsouth.net)>





A kolb is sitting on a runway which is actually a giant treadmill.

Just as the pilot throttles up and begins to move forward, the treadmill

begins running in the opposite direction. No matter how fast the airplane

tries to move forward, the treadmill will match its speed in the 

opposite direction.

Will the airplane ever take off?

Finally answered

---------------------------------------------------------------

do not archive





http://boortz.com/more/video/mythbusters_plane_conveyor_belt.html





--

kugelair.com

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 [b]

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

Ray, 

You mentioned Bernoulli...is that the same gent that furnishes only maybe 10% of the wing's lift? I'm a firm Newton guy!

 regards,

Bob N.    FireFly 070 Old Kolb

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/

do not rchive



 



 [quote][b]

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

Got to have air moving OVER THE WINGS to fly. I rest my case. The  

answer remains NO. No time for this foolishness!



On Jan 31, 2008, at 6:47 PM, jb92563 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I guess the prop blast over the wing and elevator make that possible!



 But the guy did have forward speed exceeding the rearward speed of  

 the belt so I figure he cheated a bit by having not only full prop  

 blast but also some additional forward speed.



 Still the answer remains YES however.



 Bernoulli effect in action!



 --------

 Ray



 Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)

 Moni MotorGlider

 Schreder HP-11 Glider

 Riverside County, CA



 Do Not Archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161681#161681

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

On Jan 31, 2008, at 9:06 PM, russ kinne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   No time for this foolishness!


	




Sorry Russ,

Ya could have fooled me.



You took the possum's bait.



What moves your plane forward,  the wheels or the prop?

Ed in JXN

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

Hey Bob,

  

         Yeah, soggy  Newtons (fig?...) aren't much fun.

  

 Ed in JXN

 [quote]   ---

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Not really kolb related

What nonsense...



Don't listen to the hype, look at the tape... That plane is moving forward, past the road cones, etc. And it was able to take off, when it was moving through the air fast enough for the wings to generate the necessary lift... 



Just look at the tape.



Aloha,

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

Do Not Archive

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Don't listen to the hype, look at the tape... That plane is moving 

 forward, past the road cones, etc. And it was able to take off, when it 

 was moving through the air fast enough for the wings to generate the 

 necessary lift...



 Just look at the tape.



 Aloha,



 --------

 Henry

 Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo



 Do Not Archive



 Henry,

I totally agree, that show just lost my respect in a big way, what a bill of 
	


goods they sold folks there.

They should have had a bicycle speedo on a main wheel, and maintained the 

speed the car was going.

I'll bet the house the wheels were turning about 50-60mph when it lifted 

off.

Park a car next to the bird and keep the plane stationary to it as the tarp 

is pulled and it will stay right where it started, on the ground.



Denny Rowe, Mk3 N616DR

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

The Rwy sliding back has no effect on the thrust that the engine produces, consequently the aircraft will move forward anyway. The only difference on take off this time than at other time, is that the wheels will be turning twice as fast as normal.



Ron (Arizona)

=========================

---- Russ Kinne <russ(at)rkiphoto.com> wrote: 



=============

I don't think so. Thwe wing has no speed  through the air -- hence no  

lift

On Jan 31, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Ron wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yes,     



 Ron (Arizona)



 =================================

 ---- possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



 =============

 

 A kolb is sitting on a runway which is actually a giant treadmill.

 Just as the pilot throttles up and begins to move forward, the  

 treadmill

 begins running in the opposite direction. No matter how fast the  

 airplane

 tries to move forward, the treadmill will match its speed in the

 opposite direction.



 Will the airplane ever take off?



 Finally answered



 ---------------------------------------------------------------



 do not archive

 http://boortz.com/more/video/mythbusters_plane_conveyor_belt.html

 --

 kugelair.com






	




--

kugelair.com

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Not really kolb related

Bottom line is that the wing is what generates the lift, and in order for it to do that it needs air as some speed blowing at the wing.



He had maybe 10mph forward speed at takeoff plus what ever the prop was contributing to that in the center, and then there was the rotating wheels which might have contributed a miniscule amount of negative lift(Yes rotating bodies create lift....ask a Pitcher!)

They did not mention the 15mph headwind that I assume must have been helping as well.



I guess it was enough to break ground, but that experiment was not controlled properly and their conclusion is just plain WRONG because of it.



I'm sure someone will email them and straighten them out on their conclusion!

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Not really kolb related

 	  jb92563 wrote: 	
		  I guess it was enough to break ground, but that experiment was not controlled properly and their conclusion is just plain WRONG because of it.



I'm sure someone will email them and straighten them out on their conclusion! 	




Ray,



No one needs to eMail them to straighten them out... It wasn't an experiment... It was a hoax, plane and simple.



I believe Brother Possum is rolling around holding his belly having a good laugh.



Aloha,



PS The summits of Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, and Haleakala are now snow covered... Not a hoax.

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

Do Not Archive

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

At 07:18 PM 1/31/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  It's not the prop blast.  The plane is pulling itself through the 

air.  The only thing different than a normal takeoff is the 

rotational speed of the wheels.  The rest of the plane doesn't know 

it is on a belt.



Bryan D


	


If your plane was on an 8,000 ft runway and had a 100 mph tailwind pushing

it 100 mph down the runway, Could you take off down wind. Of course you

could. Same difference.

_________________
Possum

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

if a 100 mph wind is pushing you 100 mph your airspeed is 0 I don't think you'd go very far.



[quote] Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:41:32 -0500

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 From: possums(at)bellsouth.net

 Subject: Re: Re: Not really kolb related

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net>

 

 At 07:18 PM 1/31/2008, you wrote:

 >It's not the prop blast. The plane is pulling itself through the 

 >air. The only thing different than a normal takeoff is the 

 >rotational speed of the wheels. The rest of the plane doesn't know 

 >it is on a belt.

 >

 >Bryan D

 

 If your plane was on an 8,000 ft runway and had a 100 mph tailwind pushing

 it 100 mph down the runway, Could you take off down wind. Of course you

 could. Same ========================> 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:41 PM, possums wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   If your plane was on an 8,000 ft runway and had a 100 mph tailwind  

 pushing

 it 100 mph down the runway, Could you take off down wind. Of course  

 you

 could. Same difference.


	


Nope

Not me!



I'd die of a heart attack long before I reached flying speed.

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

At 07:02 PM 2/1/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  if a 100 mph wind is pushing you 100 mph your airspeed is 0 I don't 

think you'd go very far.



I guess I should have said that - "could you take off if you used 
	


your throttle"?

_________________
Possum

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

If your plane was on an 8,000 ft runway and had a 100 mph tailwind pushing

it 100 mph down the runway, Could you take off down wind. Of course you

could. Same difference.



That would mean your speed THROUGH THE AIR would be zero? How could a takeoff be possible?

Are you saying the plane would accelerate to 140 or so? Then it might take off, if the wheels stayed together --

On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:41 PM, possums wrote:

[quote]

If your plane was on an 8,000 ft runway and had a 100 mph tailwind pushing 

it 100 mph down the runway, Could you take off down wind. Of course you 

could. Same difference. [b]

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Not really kolb related

I don't care if you could take off, it's the taxiing into position I'd like to see.



Rick G.



On Feb 1, 2008 6:06 PM, Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com (ez(at)embarqmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com (ez(at)embarqmail.com)>

 



On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:41 PM, possums wrote:



[quote] If your plane was on an 8,000 ft runway and had a 100 mph tailwind

 pushing

 it 100 mph down the runway, Could you take off down wind. Of course

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

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