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Taildragger or not

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jonathan(at)entry.co.za
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

Hi All,



I don't want to start a flame war but:



I am seriously thinking about building my second 601XL, I have over 100 hrs on

my current one, and loving the flying, but am missing the building!



I am thinking along the lines of the tail dragger version and would like to know

what you guys think about the tail dragger 601XL vs the Tricycle version of the

601XL.



I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST the 601XL. I have NO tail

dragger experience, but that does not bother me at this stage.



The Tail dragger version just LOOK better, and I assume it is simpler in

construction and maintenance. I do NOT have a problem with the nose gear on

mine, it works great, but I think the tail dragger looks GREAT.



Awaiting your opinions.



Jonathan Starke

601XL

Rotax 912S

100+ hrs and counting

klr12(at)psu.edu
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or redheads?

                                                                                  

Kevin Rupert

                                                                                  

601XL Taildragger

                                                                                  

Corvair

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

Hi Jonathan,

Lots of good td aircraft out there, but you need only to look at ground 

handling.  I prefer

steering much better than differential braking. The other thing, people 

comment that materials

on the 601 are light.  The tail wheel loads carried thru the fuselage 

would concern me though

I've never heard of one damaged by it.  You'll go faster, if that counts 

for anything, but it seems a lot

to put up with for leaving off a nose wheel. How about you doing a 

retractable XL?



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive



Jonathan Starke wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi All,



 I don't want to start a flame war but:



 I am seriously thinking about building my second 601XL, I have over 100 hrs on

 my current one, and loving the flying, but am missing the building!



 I am thinking along the lines of the tail dragger version and would like to know

 what you guys think about the tail dragger 601XL vs the Tricycle version of the

 601XL.



 I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST the 601XL. I have NO tail

 dragger experience, but that does not bother me at this stage.



 The Tail dragger version just LOOK better, and I assume it is simpler in

 construction and maintenance. I do NOT have a problem with the nose gear on

 mine, it works great, but I think the tail dragger looks GREAT.



 Awaiting your opinions.



 Jonathan Starke

 601XL

 Rotax 912S

 100+ hrs and counting

davids601xl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

Hi Jonathon. 



Your lack of taildragger experience may not bother you

but it probably will bother your insurance company. 

You should probably just check with them to find out

if insurance will be the same for the taildragger as

for the one you are currently flying.  I suspect there

may be quite a premium but all it takes is a phone

call to find out.  Good Luck.  I believe in Canada at

least, it is hardly worth getting into a taildragger

unless you already have loads of taildragger

experience. The Insurance is way higher. Now if Money

is NOT an issue....that would make the insurance

premium a moot point. 

David

--- Jonathan Starke <jonathan(at)entry.co.za> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST

 the 601XL. I have NO tail

 dragger experience, but that does not bother me at

 this stage.




	


David Barth

601 XL Plansbuilder  15% done?

Working on Wings

www.ch601.org

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

pilotdna(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

Jonathan,

 Taildraggers are loads of fun, and I agree that they look cooler on the ground and in the air.  I got my tailwheel endorsement last summer in a Decathlon and it was well worth the 600 dollar price tag.  My thought is to find a taildragger and instructor, get the training, and if you enjoy the flying as much as I did, you won't have to wonder which version to build.  

  

 There isn't much practical advantage to building the TD, but we build and fly for fun.

  

 Doug Eatman

 601XL TD Corvair

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as ir/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join' target='_new'>Learn more.

nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      do not archive

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu (klr12(at)psu.edu)> 

  

 Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or redheads? 

   Kevin Rupert 

   601XL Taildragger 

   Corvair 

  

 	
  ================================================ 

  

  

 

   More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail! 

  [quote][b]

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

nyterminat(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      do not archive


	


Redheads ! Redheads! Redheads! Beat me! Tie me! Whip me!!!



Tailwheels will usually save some amount of weight and reduce some 

amount of drag, as well as make the plane more attractive. That is a 

pretty significant set of benefits.



On balance you will have to learn a new skill (always a good idea), you 

will always have to be more alert on landing (another really good idea) 

and your insurance will be affected because of the people who were NOT 

skilled or alert in the past.



IMHO, the insurance is something that will be a thorn in your side once 

a year. The benefits if lighter weight, less drag, and a cooler looking 

airplane are enjoyed on every single flight.



Chris Heintz is a brilliant designer, and he is obviously the poster boy 

for "form follows function". He admits his designs are not optimized for 

appearance, any more than the claw hammer or the ironsmith's anvil are 

optimized for appearance. So if there is something simple you can do to 

make the airplane more pretty, that does not negatively affect the 

safety or usability of the design, it might be a nice bargain that only 

requires you become a little better airplane driver... which you will 

soon see is an even bigger reward. My opinion only, I've owned 

nosewheels and tailwheels and enjoyed them both.



Bill



nyterminat(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      do not archive



     

     <klr12(at)psu.edu <mailto:klr12(at)psu.edu>> 

      

     Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or

     redheads? 

       Kevin Rupert 

       601XL Taildragger 

       Corvair 

      



 ================================================ 

  

  

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!

 *

 *

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Taildragger or not

Jonathan,



You are kind of where I was when I first started thinking about building my 601 (except for the fact that you actually HAVE one!)



I was considering a taildragger even though I had minimal TD experience.  I asked a few insurance reps at Oshkosh and they did their best to hold back on the laughter. Since we essentially live in a era of regulation by insurance, I gave up the TD idea as a matter of pure folly on my part.  In the meantime, I got my TD endorsement last fall and had a blast doing so.   Somewhere in the back of my mind I wish I was building a TD, but not enough to convert what I already have into one.  Hey that's an idea.......when I get post-builders stress disorder, I can convert it to a TD!  What a concept!



I say you go for it!  Either way, get your TD endorsement, especially in an old rag wing that makes you learn the finer points of rudder pedals.

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

MaxNr(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: Taildragger or not

Ask your wife. I asked mine and she said "nosewheel, please."

 

 Bob      601XL Do not archive

 

 

**************

Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

     (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)  [quote][b]

dalemed

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Taildragger or not

About 1200 of my 1300 hours are in taildraggers.  I've owned a Taylorcraft BC12D, a Cessna 140 and currently a Cessna 170.



I've recently started building a 601XL and thought I'd build the nose gear version primarily because I've never owned a trike.  I also figured it would be nice to not have to use differential braking in a cross wind.  However, I'm starting to have second thoughts.  I like the looks of the TD version better (in fact, I like the looks of taildraggers in general).  I also like the fact that the plane weighs less and has less drag (but I'd still be limited to 120 kts in the LSA category).



Once you get some time built up in a TD, I don't think there's much of a premium for insurance.



Can anyone tell me the weight difference between the TD and trike?  



Dale

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: Taildragger or not

HI Dale,



Just a guess since I haven't weighed the parts.  Perhaps 20 or 30 

pounds represents the weight of the nose gear.  Then subtract the 

weight of the tail wheel and spring.  I don't know if you need to 

consider ballast in the nose to get good pitch stability with removal 

of the nose wheel.



My two cents worth on the tail wheel vs. nose wheel question:   I 

favor the tricycle configuration for airplanes that will be operated 

primarily from paved runways.  Conventional gear was designed for use 

on "Round" fields where crosswinds were never an issue, and they 

present directional stability problems in any ground operations.



I don't think there is a great drag advantage for moderate speed 

cruise in tail draggers.  For high speed operations, retractable gear 

is a much better choice.



I admit the nose gear can be a problem if you are operating from 

unimproved "Bush" fields.  That means the conventional arrangement is 

a good choice for this mission.  The large wheels often used for bush 

work also increases the weight and drag advantage in this case.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 02:08 PM 1/26/2008, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Can anyone tell me the weight difference between the TD and trike?



Dale

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