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ethanol in autofuel

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jpspencer(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: ethanol in autofuel

All,



SI-912-016

 Craig

 Thanks for the SI link.  Looking at the table in  Section 5 there are some rather ominous warnings about the possible effects of  alcohol, having to do with alcohol competing directly with the oil, and also  problems with forming condensation on bearings after shutdown, leading shortly  to failure. Sounds nasty. Some of us may eventually not have any choice but to  run 10% ethanol due to lack of availibility of anything else....maybe Rotax is  being ultra conservative with this(wishful thinking?)

  

 Joe

  

  

  

  

  

 engines.com/pdf/dokus/d03830.pdf



Page  8



"Fuel with more than 5% alcohol added must not be used."



Best  regards,

Craig Moore A&P

Mancelona, MI

701 builder  wannabe

   [quote][b]

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Re: ethanol in autofuel

One other thing to keep in mind. That 5% number Rotax quotes is for the engine. NOT the entire fuel system. So even if you have a Rotax engine and you know you have 5% Ethanol fuel you still need to make sure everything else in the fuel system can deal with it.

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W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: ethanol in autofuel

E85 has nearly a 30% lower energy density than gasoline and even with

the 50 cents a gallon subsidy being paid to alcohol producers, the price

of E85 is only slightly lower than regular auto gasoline. So you'll get 

30% less range out of your airplane while paying nearly the same price 

as for auto gas. In other words, your fuel bill for your airplane will 

be significantly higher.



Joe Spencer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   All,

 

 SI-912-016

 

 Craig

 Thanks for the SI link.  Looking at the table in Section 5 there are 

 some rather ominous warnings about the possible effects of alcohol, 

 having to do with alcohol competing directly with the oil, and also 

 problems with forming condensation on bearings after shutdown, leading 

 shortly to failure. Sounds nasty. Some of us may eventually not have any 

 choice but to run 10% ethanol due to lack of availibility of anything 

 else....maybe Rotax is being ultra conservative with this(wishful thinking?)

  


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

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_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: ethanol in autofuel

I have patiently read the posts on this thread and remained silent but now feel compelled to vioce my opinion (since everyone else has).



The bottom line is that ethanol is not a good choice for aviation fuel / fuel additive for many reasons that have been listed, discussed and even refuted by some. It has been touted as an answer to fossil fuel  independence. Wrong. We are nowhere near ready to produce enough to really matter. But hey, racecars love the stuff, right? Yeah if you accept the short engine life of racecars and the "who cares" issue about how much fuel they need to carry. But there were those Brazillian cropduster engines that lasted so long and looked so good at overhaul. Really? Anecdotal at best. Fictional at worst. Even if that's true, would those engines not have produced more power at a lower gross weight on 95 or 100 octane gasoline? Some have praised ethanol as being red white and blue... as American as Chevy and apple pie. Okay, granted we can make it here in the USA. We can also drill for more oil and build more refineries right here in the good old USA too. Why is that not American? It might even be a better short term idea. The long term idea is more likely to be biodiesel. That can be made from American corn in American plants too and it's a far superior fuel to ethanol. The more trucks and cars that burn biodiesel, the more 95 - 100 octane we have left over for airplanes until the electric, jet, and/or diesel small aircraft engines come of age.



How about this; let's strive to utilize the ethanol and biodiesel in vehicles other than airplanes to ease the demand for the gasoline we should be using as aviation fuel?



Dred

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davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: ethanol in autofuel

I feel bad adding my two cents because the topic is kind of an off list

issue.  But on behalf of the human cost of ethanol.



In general the arguments for including Ethanol in any auto-fuel are

specious.



I find it interesting that the same people advocating the idea that we are

over farming our lands and depleting our soil when we grow grains to feed

people and livestock, support the idea of feeding it to our automobiles.

The worldwide cost of corn has risen dramatically along with sympathetic

upward movement for other grains.  This will give the United States another

black eye on the international scene when third world children starve

because they can no longer afford the new grain prices.



It takes 450 lbs of corn plus fossil fuels to grow and harvest enough corn

to create 25 gallons of ethanol.  That is enough to feed a person for a

year.



Ethanol is a knee-jerk political offering.



If you want to solve this problem you will need to stick closer to good

science and distance yourself from the line of new corn constituencies that

are being formed.



In the long view, I want to see success creating the first large scale

Fusion Reactor coupled to a Hydrogen economy.

(Unlimited, clean power)  I am not up to date but the French were selected

to try this as a multinational $19 billion project.  In the short run this

would work with fission reactors as well.



Gary Ray



DO NOT ARCHIVE

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