Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Exhaust Temps

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

Ed,

 

 One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without breaking it down!   Are they willing to tell you ?  I listen to a real 2 cycle pro!!

 

 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!

 

 Terry -  Firefly  #95

     [quote][b]

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust Temps

tkrolfe(at)toast.net"] 	  Quote: 	
		  



Ed,

 

One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without breaking it down!   Are they willing to tell you ?  I listen to a real 2 cycle pro!!

 

 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!

 

 Terry -  Firefly  #95 	




Terry, I'll bet you are an avid user of Seafoam ...  



do not archive

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

Ralph B wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph B" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> (ul15rhb(at)juno.com)



tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]

        	  Quote: 	
		  

Ed,

 

One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without breaking it down!   Are they willing to tell you ?  I listen to a real 2 cycle pro!!

 

 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!

 

 Terry -  Firefly  #95 

    	
   



Terry, I'll bet you are an avid user of Seafoam ...  [Laughing]



do not archive



--------

Ralph B

Original Firestar

N91493 E-AB

21 years flying it

  	
 	
 

 Ralph B,

 

 Now you've done it !!!!!!  You let out my "secret" and nobody is going to listen to me now.  Not they they were going to anyway,   Darn that stuff taste funny!    

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

    [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust Temps

[quote="tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]Ed,

 

 One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without breaking it down!   Are they willing to tell you ?  I listen to a real 2 cycle pro!!

 

 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!

 

 Terry -  Firefly  #95

      	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




You have my attention, but you did not give any advice or techniques...   If you have some good advice, by all means publish it here so we can compare setups and results.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

In a message dated 2/13/2008 2:24:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,  tkrolfe(at)toast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

795 hr.s without breakdown or    de-carboning and going strong!



Terry -  Firefly     #95

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	


 

                   Terry, 

  

                 I cant argue with your success. So far your are doing something right obviously  !  What are your lowest EGT readings?   What are your highest CHT  readings?   Oh by the way I built 3 pair of the 4130 gear legs per  your prints and had em hardened to Rockwell 47. I figured I would have   needed  them by now the way everyone was bending aluminum ones when I  was still building. So far I havent needed them with over 300 landings. Those  alum gear legs are tougher than I was led to believe by others on the list.  Its comforting to know there is some forgiveness with the alum legs.

  

                        Ed  FF #62



The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards.  AOL Music takes you there.

  [quote][b]

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Exhaust Temps

DAquaNut(at)aol.com (DAquaNut(at)aol.com) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		                 In a message dated 2/13/2008 2:24:25 P.M. Central Standard Time, tkrolfe(at)toast.net (tkrolfe(at)toast.net) writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  

 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!

     

 Terry -  Firefly  #95

           	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     	
   

                    Terry, 

    

                  I cant argue with your success. So far your are doing something right obviously !  What are your lowest EGT readings?   What are your highest CHT readings?   Oh by the way I built 3 pair of the 4130 gear legs per your prints and had em hardened to Rockwell 47. I figured I would have  needed  them by now the way everyone was bending aluminum ones when I was still building. So far I havent needed them with over 300 landings. Those alum gear legs are tougher than I was led to believe by others on the list. Its comforting to know there is some forgiveness with the alum legs.

    

                         Ed  FF #62

   	
 Ed,

 

 My lowest EGT's are 1075 and my highest CHT's are 325.  I swing a Tennessee wood prop that is 66 dia. with a 33 pitch as per the Original Kolb Co. prescription.  I hope you took note that I'm using a different needle from stock, but more importantly is that I fly (cruise) at a much lower RPM than most.  Usually between 4800 and 5200 RPM.  Your choice of oil is a big factor as to the amount of carbon build up and a very hotly debated issue here on the list.

 

 Obviously, your flying skills are right up there since you haven't bent your gear legs yet.  Can't say I did as well.

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

 

 

    [quote][b]

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: Exhaust Temps

JetPilot wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>



[quote="tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]Ed,

 

 One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without breaking it down!   Are they willing to tell you ?  I listen to a real 2 cycle pro!!

 

 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!

 

 Terry -  Firefly  #95

     

        	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

    	
   



You have my attention, but you did not give any advice or techniques...   If you have some good advice, by all means publish it here so we can compare setups and results.



Mike



--------

&quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!



Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

  	
 	
 Mike,  

 

 If you had bothered to read any of my past postings to the list, you would have seen that I did spell out what I'm doing.  Suggest you go back and look and while at it, look at more of the long time list contributors that have posted what they learned from their long experience.  Much can be gained my listening to them.

 

 I have found that an open mouth precludes the functioning of both the ears and intellect.  I try to digest what the guys that have more time and experience than I do have to say and then choose my own actions.  Too, bad we lost one of those recently due to his disgust with the tone of the list lately!

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

 

 

    [quote][b]

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Exhaust Temps

Terry,

  

      Its going to be stormy here in Houston, so I'm  going to the hanger.   In your last post you said you cruise 4800-  5200 rpms.  That is about where my EGTS  start getting too hot. I  believe you said you were running a 11 G 2  jet needle.  One last  question.  What are your static rpms set at?

  

  

       Ed   FF # 62

  



The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards.  AOL Music takes you there.

  [quote][b]

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Exhaust Temps

DAquaNut(at)aol.com (DAquaNut(at)aol.com) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		                  Terry,

    

        Its going to be stormy here in Houston, so I'm going to the hanger.   In your last post you said you cruise 4800- 5200 rpms.  That is about where my EGTS  start getting too hot. I believe you said you were running a 11 G 2  jet needle.  One last question.  What are your static rpms set at?

    

    

         Ed   FF # 62

     

   

 	
 Ed,

 

 My static rpm is about 6400.  I swing a wood prop which doesn't allow for any change.  It was about 6200 rpm until I alter the prop tips to make it quieter ( earlier discussion). 

 

 As far a EGT temps, I have the old service manual from Rotax which gives specific numbers for EGT's and CHT's.  You may already have this information, but if not, here it is.

 

 It states the upper limit values as such:   CHT at spark plug seat -  450 F    difference between two cylinders - 36 F

                                                                      EGT -  1200 F   difference between two cylinders 45 F        

 

 As I stated before, I run EGT's from 1075 to 1190 depending, sometimes pushing 1225 at higher altitudes.   From what you wrote before on 2-10-08, I think your worrying about nothing.  I would like to see what would happen in your were able to borrow another EGT gauge and see what goes.  Also, our senders are not always accurate.  I had a problem with wiring connectors last year messing up my readings.  Another test that would be interesting would be to borrow another carburetor and see what happens.  Did that for a friend and what a surprise.  Someone else mentioned looking for an air leak.  Might want to spray WD 40 around the carb mounting rubber and manifold while running.  Blue smoke will let you know if you have one.

 

 As my friend and 2 cycle Guru keeps telling me, over and over again, look at your plugs and cylinder tops and you can tell whats going on.  He tells me not to chase the gauges.  Of course you have to learn what to look for!  Also, if you take off your exhaust Y once a year you can observe what's happening in there and if your rings are free.

 

 Yes, I'm using the 11G2 needle, but that is for mid range performance and I don't think it will solve your problem.  Got that idea from the list years ago!  Can't remember the gentleman's name, sorry!   I may have to change again when the Ethanol "monster" strikes here!!!!

 

 Good luck with your trouble shooting,

 

 Terry -  FireFly  #95

                                                 

 

    [quote][b]

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

In a message dated 2/16/2008 11:30:42 A.M. Central Standard Time,  tkrolfe(at)toast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

As    my friend and 2 cycle Guru keeps telling me, over and over again, look at your    plugs and cylinder tops and you can tell whats going on.  He tells me not    to chase the gauges.  Of course you have to learn what to look for!     Also, if you take off your exhaust Y once a year you can observe what's    happening in there and if your rings are free.



	


 

               Terry,

  

      My plugs are white with a hint of tan. I take that  to indicate a lean condition!  I think my gauges are somewhat accurate.  When the egt gauge reads 1200+ the engine starts running rough. When I pull out  the enrichener the engine smoothes out and the egts drop.  When the weather  clears I am going to put back the stock jets and put in a little more pitch. It  will be warm weather here before long and that will make things a little richer  also.   I did a de -carbon at 50 hrs and now have 78 hours on  it!

  

               Ed



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Exhaust Temps

DAquaNut(at)aol.com (DAquaNut(at)aol.com) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		                 In a message dated 2/16/2008 11:30:42 A.M. Central Standard Time, tkrolfe(at)toast.net (tkrolfe(at)toast.net) writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  

 As my friend and 2 cycle Guru keeps telling me, over and over again, look at your plugs and cylinder tops and you can tell whats going on.  He tells me not to chase the gauges.  Of course you have to learn what to look for!  Also, if you take off your exhaust Y once a year you can observe what's happening in there and if your rings are free.

     

     	
   

                Terry,

    

        My plugs are white with a hint of tan. I take that to indicate a lean condition!  I think my gauges are somewhat accurate. When the egt gauge reads 1200+ the engine starts running rough. When I pull out the enrichener the engine smoothes out and the egts drop.  When the weather clears I am going to put back the stock jets and put in a little more pitch. It will be warm weather here before long and that will make things a little richer also.   I did a de -carbon at 50 hrs and now have 78 hours on it!

    

                Ed

   	
 

 Ed,

 

 Sounds like you are lean, now the question is why?  Using the enrichener is a good way of telling that, should have mentioned that earlier.  Getting back to stock is a good starting point.  Do that before changing pitch, one thing at a time.  Good luck solving the problem.  Still have a problem with the decarbon thing at 50 hr.s.  Who did the work and what gaskets were used to re-assemble?  

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

    [quote][b]

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Exhaust Temps

TK wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		        DAquaNut(at)aol.com (DAquaNut(at)aol.com) wrote:    	  Quote: 	
		                           In a message dated 2/16/2008 11:30:42 A.M. Central Standard Time, tkrolfe(at)toast.net (tkrolfe(at)toast.net) writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		  

 As my friend and 2 cycle Guru keeps telling me, over and over again, look at your plugs and cylinder tops and you can tell whats going on.  He tells me not to chase the gauges.  Of course you have to learn what to look for!  Also, if you take off your exhaust Y once a year you can observe what's happening in there and if your rings are free.

       

       	
     

                  Terry,

      

          My plugs are white with a hint of tan. I take that to indicate a lean condition!  I think my gauges are somewhat accurate. When the egt gauge reads 1200+ the engine starts running rough. When I pull out the enrichener the engine smoothes out and the egts drop.  When the weather clears I am going to put back the stock jets and put in a little more pitch. It will be warm weather here before long and that will make things a little richer also.   I did a de -carbon at 50 hrs and now have 78 hours on it!

      

                  Ed

     	
   

 Ed,

   

 Sounds like you are lean, now the question is why?  Using the enrichener is a good way of telling that, should have mentioned that earlier.  Getting back to stock is a good starting point.  Do that before changing pitch, one thing at a time.  Good luck solving the problem.  Still have a problem with the decarbon thing at 50 hr.s.  Who did the work and what gaskets were used to re-assemble?  

   

 Terry -  FireFly #95

 	
 

 Ed,

 

 One more thought.  Check your fuel bowl float level.  If it is off it can cause a lean fuel situation in the mid range.

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

    [quote][b]

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

Terry,

  

    I  did a de carbon at 50 hrs. because of Rotax's  recommendation.  I did the work myself and used all genuine Rotax  gaskets.   It was pretty straight forward., but , getting all the  tin back on and the needle bearings back was a little tricky. This engine has  had high egts before and after the de carbon.   During the warm spring  and summer months it seems to stay below 1200*  egts.  That was before  10% alcohol was forced on us. I am going to try the WD-40 Test you mentioned,  next time I get to the hangar.

  

  

  

      Ed   FF #  62  



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

In a message dated 2/17/2008 1:38:49 P.M. Central Standard Time,  tkrolfe(at)toast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Ed,



One more thought.  Check your fuel bowl float    level.  If it is off it can cause a lean fuel situation in the mid    range.



Terry -  FireFly #95

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	


 

               Terry,

  

                    I checked the fuel level in the carb bowl  and measured and it was right at  1/2 inch below the bowl rim! 

  

                  Ed FF#62



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

At 04:09 PM 2/17/2008, DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  ...This engine has had high egts before and after the de carbon.   During the warm spring and summer months it seems to stay below 1200*  egts. 	


 If you're not rejetting it according to the seasons, this makes sense... the less dense air in the warm months will make the engine run richer, and vice versa.



 -Dana



 

 

 --

  "The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every

 time Congress meets." -- Will Rogers    [quote][b]

tkrolfe(at)toast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: Exhaust Temps

DAquaNut(at)aol.com (DAquaNut(at)aol.com) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		              Terry,

    

      I  did a de carbon at 50 hrs. because of Rotax's recommendation.  I did the work myself and used all genuine Rotax gaskets.   It was pretty straight forward., but , getting all the tin back on and the needle bearings back was a little tricky. This engine has had high egts before and after the de carbon.   During the warm spring and summer months it seems to stay below 1200*  egts.  That was before 10% alcohol was forced on us. I am going to try the WD-40 Test you mentioned, next time I get to the hangar.

    

    

    

        Ed   FF # 62 

   

   	
 

 Ed,

 

 That's why I worry about when we here have to bite the bullet of using ethanol also.  It will probably change my setup also.  What a scam it's turning out to be!

 Terry -  Firefly #95

 

 P's.  Never decarboned, don't intend to and don't need to.  The original users of Rotax engines, the snowmobile er's and jet skiers never did it and they beat the crap out of their machines!  Choose your oil wisely!  

    [quote][b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum