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poasttown(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV.  I purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox and was installing them and ran into a problem.  When they made the struts they flatten one end ot the tubing to provide a flat area to attach to the single tab on the fuseledge.  I attached the rod ends to the horizontal stabilizer but when I tried to attach the struts to the fuseledge tab the rounded portions of the struts touched preventing the flattened areas to go together. I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but I would think the flattened areas of the struts should go together and touch the tab.

   

  Any suggestions?

   

  Mike Chaney

   

   



  [quote][b]

bigboyzt0yz

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Centeral Maryland

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Mike Chaney,

   

  Mine has a adjustment at the outboard end only. Just make sure you put a A/N washer under the head of the bolt on the adjustment end in case the joint fails it can not come completely off. If it fails in flight it might be a real problem getting back on the ground safely.

   

  If you need me to send you a photo I will be at the hanger tomorow and could send it when I get back in the afternoon.

   

  Lee

Keep your feet on the peddels and keep reaching for the sky!!!!

   

   Lee

   



        Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

_________________
Lee Fritz in Owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive taper tip/100% Complete ( Extras Strut fairings08, Grove gear09,) 300 hrs since Aug 07 "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From  

your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My  

Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one  

left side and one right side. These V-shaped struts are welded  

together such that the front one goes onto the fuselage tab, and the  

rear tube gets cut at an angle to fit snugly up against the front  

tube, then they are welded together. At least that's how mine were  

received from the factory back in 1994. The result is that the  

flattened part of one strut tube lays onto the fuselage tab, and is  

bolted to it. Try looking at it in this way, and see if it makes  

sense. Did they send you two or four rod ends? Mine has just two rod  

ends, and they go to the front of the hort. stab. The rear  

connections to the hort. stab are both the flattened tubes, as I  

remember it.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/470+ hrs



On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV.  I  

 purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox  

 and was installing them and ran into a problem.  When they made the  

 struts they flatten one end ot the tubing to provide a flat area to  

 attach to the single tab on the fuseledge.  I attached the rod ends  

 to the horizontal stabilizer but when I tried to attach the struts  

 to the fuseledge tab the rounded portions of the struts touched  

 preventing the flattened areas to go together. I suppose I could  

 add washers to fix this problem but I would think the flattened  

 areas of the struts should go together and touch the tab.



 Any suggestions?



 Mike Chaney



 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

And make sure that the washer you use is an AN 970 washer, which is a  

"large area" washer. A normal AN960 washer won't do any good. I think  

that an AN960 washer will pull right through a failed rod end  

bearing, if I'm not mistaken. My parts list calls for two AN 970  

washers <L.A.> in this application. The larger 970 washer won't let  

the failed rod end escape.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/470+ hrs

On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:19 PM, bigboyz toyz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike Chaney,



 Mine has a adjustment at the outboard end only. Just make sure you  

 put a A/N washer under the head of the bolt on the adjustment end  

 in case the joint fails it can not come completely off. If it fails  

 in flight it might be a real problem getting back on the ground  

 safely.



 If you need me to send you a photo I will be at the hanger tomorow  

 and could send it when I get back in the afternoon.



 Lee

 Keep your feet on the peddels and keep reaching for the sky!!!!



 Lee

 Be a better friend, newshound, and _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

poasttown(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Lynn

   

  My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped.  The one I have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded end that goes into the rod end.  Skystar at the time suggested that all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube.

   

  I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order.  I received four tubes, two for each side.  Each tube has a rod end and is flattened on the other end.  This replacement seemed pretty simple, take the old off and put the new on.  Kitfox did not send any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple.

   

  I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few years ago at Oshkosh.  Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you  described or is it the two seperate tubes as they sent me?

   

  Mike Chaney



Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 



Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From 

your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My 

Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one 

left side and one right side. ......



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/470+ hrs



On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:



[quote] This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I 

 purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox 

 and was installing them and ran into a problem. When       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer

 	  Quote: 	
		  I attached the rod ends to the horizontal stabilizer but when I tried to attach the struts to the fuseledge tab the rounded portions of the struts touched preventing the flattened areas to go together. I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but I would think the flattened areas of the struts should go together and touch the tab. 



Any suggestions? 	




Mike, the front strut goes on top of the fuselage tab and the rear strut goes on the bottom of the fuselage tab.  Mine do not touch each other but if they did I would install washer(s) for clearance.  You may need to use a longer bolt if you need the extra washers.



Also, the single piece V struts were the original struts.  The modifications are the Two piece for each side (4 total) with two rod ends on each side for the outboard ends (front and rear).



Picture of inboard ends attached.

Horizontal Stab Strut.jpg

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Last edited by Tom Jones on Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

At 05:58 PM 2/16/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but I would think 

the flattened areas of the struts should go together and touch the tab.


	


Two possibilities:



1. Bend the outboard edges of the fuselage tab up to conform to the 

struts using a crescent wrench.



2. Grind the fuselage tab back. You only require one full hole 

diameter of metal outside the hole for full strength. (Probably 3/16")

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

I've never seen the arrangement you're using, but have you tried placing one 

strut below the tab and one above it?



Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

do not archive

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Mike-

I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not  

1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace  

the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and use  

a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was  

to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft Spruce  

calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought  

I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I  

would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought  

two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was the  

one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls  

this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ... 

3/8"x .035"  At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new  

catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28  

threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or  3/16"...this is for  

the #10 mounting bolt.

I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts,  

and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked  

me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of  

the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end.  I suppose  

this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into  

the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection.

I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my  

plane) has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the  

threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't  

measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and the  

front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near where  

it attaches to the fuselage tab.

I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes,  

unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the tab  

and one below.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/475+ hrs

On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn

 My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped.  The one I  

 have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded  

 end that goes into the rod end.  Skystar at the time suggested that  

 all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks  

 like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube.

 I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order.  I  

 received four tubes, two for each side.  Each tube has a rod end  

 and is flattened on the other end.  This replacement seemed pretty  

 simple, take the old off and put the new on.  Kitfox did not send  

 any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple.

 I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few  

 years ago at Oshkosh.  Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a  

 one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is  

 it the two seperate tubes as they sent me?

 Mike Chaney

 Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From

 your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My

 Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one

 left side and one right side. ......

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/470+ hrs

 On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I

 > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox

 > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better  

 friend, newshound, and _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Nice picture, Tom...it looks like you had to lower your horizontal  

stab, eh? (I've got the same "extra" holes in my fairing too.)  : )



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/475+ hrs

do not archive

On Feb 17, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Tom Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

> I attached the rod ends to the horizontal stabilizer but when I  

> tried to attach the struts to the fuseledge tab the rounded  

> portions of the struts touched preventing the flattened areas to  

> go together. I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but  

> I would think the flattened areas of the struts should go together  

> and touch the tab.

>

> Any suggestions?

 Mike, the front strut goes on top of the fuselage tab and the  

 bottom strut goes on the bottom of the fuselage tab.  Mine do not  

 touch each other but if they did I would install washer(s) for  

 clearance.  You may need to use a longer bolt if you need the extra  

 washers.



 Also, the single piece V struts were the original struts.  The  

 modifications are the Two piece for each side (4 total) with two  

 rod ends on each side for the outboard ends (front and rear).



 Picture of inboard ends attached.



 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV, Phase one

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164636#164636





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/horizontal_stab_strut_160.jpg

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

You may have a defective strut that happened in the manufacturing process. I had one that was too short. Called the factory and they sent me a replacement. My struts are installed one above and one below the tab.---Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/60%/Flower Mound,TX

---- "Dave G." <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: 

[quote] 

 

 I've never seen the arrangement you're using, but have you tried placing one 

 strut below the tab and one above it?

 

 Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

 do not archive

 ---

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer

For anyone that might be wondering about the modified Horizontal stab lift struts.  I should correct my earlier post about them.  I actually know of at least three versions.  My Kit was delivered in 1994 with the one piece V struts with 3/16 threaded rod on the front outboard end.  Skystar soon produced the first mod which was the two piece with 3/16 threaded rod on both outboard ends.  Later they suggested going to their third version which is the two piece with 1/4 threaded rod on both outboard ends.



For what its worth there were a few builders that had the 3/16 rod ends break.  I think all were noticed during preflight and don't know of any that were confirmed to happen in flight.  At least two were found when preflighting to leave a fly in.  My opinion is someone lifted the airplane by the horizontal stab and broke it or someone even sat on it at the fly in.



 	  Quote: 	
		  it looks like you had to lower your horizontal 

stab, eh? (I've got the same "extra" holes in my fairing too.) : ) 	




Lynn, yes I started flight testing with the front bolt of the horizontal stab in the top hole.  I was flying with the CG near the foreword limit and it took just a slight one finger back pressure on the stick to fly level.  I couldn't trim nose up because pulling a little flaperon trims the nose down.



I then moved the front bolt of the Horizontal stab to the middle hole.  Now It flys level hands off with the CG near the foreward limit and I can trim nose down with the flaperons as the CG moves back to fly hands off.  It doesn't take much down flaperon trim and I can't see hardly any reduction in air speed. 



I didn't want to add on a different pitch trim system.  My Kitfox is very basic and I like it that way.  The only electrical accessory is the starter and I often think about eliminating that.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

If you decide to change out the rod end, it makes little sense to put another rod of larger size in its place.  Just add a flattend tube as all the adjustments that you needed for first flights etc are finshed.  Clint



[quote] From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer

 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:43:48 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Mike-

 I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not 

 1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace 

 the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and use 

 a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was 

 to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft Spruce 

 calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought 

 I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I 

 would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought 

 two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was the 

 one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls 

 this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ... 

 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new 

 catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28 

 threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for 

 the #10 mounting bolt.

 

 I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts, 

 and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked 

 me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of 

 the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose 

 this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into 

 the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection.

 

 I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my 

 plane) has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the 

 threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube..didn't 

 measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and the 

 front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near where 

 it attaches to the fuselage tab.

 

 I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes, 

 unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the tab 

 and one below.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/475+ hrs

 

 

 On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 

 > Lynn

 >

 > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped. The one I 

 > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded 

 > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the time suggested that 

 > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks 

 > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube.

 >

 > I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order. I 

 > received four tubes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end 

 > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty 

 > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send 

 > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple.

 >

 > I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few 

 > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a 

 > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is 

 > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me?

 >

 > Mike Chaney

 >

 > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson

 >

 > Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From

 > your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My

 > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one

 > left side and one right side. ......

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/470+ hrs

 >

 >

 >

 > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 >

 > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I

 > > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox

 > > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better 

 > friend, newshound, and _- 

 > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 > www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 > ===================================> 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Its NOT ok to weld a socket head cap screw the thing will become 

brittle and would be subject to easy fracture with a little 

vibration. They should all be replaced with the AN490 insert and the 

appropriate rod end. Plenty of tube length when carefully measured, a 

Simple fix. It is my belief that a stronger tube (thicker wall 

thickness) is not required.

Be sure to switch from #10 threads to 1/4" threads.

Paul

===================

At 09:43 AM 2/18/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts,

and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked

me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of

the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end.  I suppose

this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into

the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/475+ hrs

poasttown(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

Thanks to everyone who responded to my problem with the horizontal stabilizer struts.  I went back to the hanger today and decided that I could make it work if I did sandwich the fuseledge tab and a thin spacer between the two struts.  The struts were too long so I had to cut off about 1/8 to 3/16 inch off the length of the struts at the flatened area where it attaches to the fuseledge.

  Mike Chaney

Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

  [quote]    .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    If you decide to change out the rod end, it makes little sense to put another rod of larger size in its place.  Just add a flattend tube as all the adjustments that you needed for first flights etc are finshed.   Clint

[quote] From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer

 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:43:48 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Mike-

 I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not 

 1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace 

 the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and use 

 a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was 

 to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft Spruce 

 calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought 

 I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I 

 would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought 

 two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was  the 

 one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls 

 this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ... 

 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new 

 catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28 

 threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for 

 the #10 mounting bolt.

 I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts, 

 and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked 

 me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of 

 the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose 

 this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into 

 the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection.

 I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my 

 plane)  has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the 

 threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't 

 measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and the 

 front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near where 

 it attaches to the fuselage tab.

 I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes, 

 unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the tab 

 and one below.

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/475+ hrs

 On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 > Lynn

 >

 > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped. The one I 

 > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded 

 > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the  time suggested that 

 > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks 

 > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube.

 >

 > I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order. I 

 > received four tubes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end 

 > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty 

 > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send 

 > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple.

 >

 > I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few 

 > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a 

 > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is 

 > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me?

 >

 > Mike Chaney

 >

 > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  wrote:

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson

 >

 > Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From

 > your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My

 > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one

 > left side and one right side. ......

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/470+ hrs

 >

 >

 >

 > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 >

 > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I

 > > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox

 > > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better 

 > friend, newshound, and _- 

 > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: horizontal stabilizer

If they were too long, I'd check and see if the hort. stab is  

straight and level, and not drooping. If it is, it will make the  

elevator hard to work, as the hinge line will be curved instead of a  

straight line.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/475+ hrs

On Feb 18, 2008, at 5:59 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks to everyone who responded to my problem with the horizontal  

 stabilizer struts.  I went back to the hanger today and decided  

 that I could make it work if I did sandwich the fuseledge tab and a  

 thin spacer between the two struts.  The struts were too long so I  

 had to cut off about 1/8 to 3/16 inch off the length of the struts  

 at the flatened area where it attaches to the fuseledge.



 Mike Chaney



 Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 If you decide to change out the rod end, it makes little sense to  

 put another rod of larger size in its place.  Just add a flattend  

 tube as all the adjustments that you needed for first flights etc  

 are finshed.  Clint



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer

 > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:43:48 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Mike-

 > I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not

 > 1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace

 > the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and  

 use

 > a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was

 > to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft  

 Spruce

 > calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought

 > I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I

 > would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought

 > two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was  

 the

 > one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls

 > this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ...

 > 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new

 > catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28

 > threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for

 > the #10 mounting bolt.

 >

 > I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original  

 struts,

 > and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked

 > me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of

 > the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose

 > this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes  

 into

 > the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded  

 connection.

 >

 > I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my

 > plane) has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the

 > threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't

 > measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and  

 the

 > front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near  

 where

 > it attaches to the fuselage tab.

 >

 > I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes,

 > unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the  

 tab

 > and one below.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/475+ hrs

 >

 >

 > On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 >

 > > Lynn

 > >

 > > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped. The one I

 > > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded

 > > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the time suggested that

 > > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks

 > > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube.

 > >

 > > I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order. I

 > > received four tubes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end

 > > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty

 > > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send

 > > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple.

 > >

 > > I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few

 > > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a

 > > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is

 > > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me?

 > >

 > > Mike Chaney

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 > > 

 > >

 > > Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together?  

 From

 > > your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/ 

 tubes. My

 > > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one

 > > left side and one right side. ......

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > flying w/470+ hrs

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:

 > >

 > > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I

 > > > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox

 > > > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better

 > > friend, newshound, and _-

 > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-Be a better friend,  

 newshound, and_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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