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bcchurch

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Racine, WI

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Storing skins

I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and have some questions about storing the large fuselage and wing skins. 



Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in the brown shipping paper or should the paper be removed?



Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to 3 ft diameter rolls and keep them that way for months to years?



What advice would you have for the "storage-space-challenged" builder to store skins?  (Besides the obvious "get more storage space")  I'm particularly interested to hear how other builders have overcome the space issue with the skins.  My work table is based on Gary Liming's design and is resting on saw-horses so I can't have a full-length shelf under the table.



I've searched the archives but didn't have too much luck in finding any clear answers.  One person stated that they removed all skins from the paper and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if others have gone to this amount of effort.  I've also read some posts about rolling entire 4x12 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to be some debate about if this can be done for long times without the sheets taking a shape.  



I'd appreciate your comments and advice.



Thanks,

Ben Church



do not archive

_________________
Ben Church
CH801
Racine, WI

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Storing skins

As long as you're storing them in a dry place, you shouldn't have any  

problems storing them in rolled up in the brown paper. If in doubt,  

you could go the the sporting goods store and get some desiccant packs  

to seal up with the skins to keep them dry. The sheets won't  

permanently change shape unless you roll them past their elastic limit  

and this happens pretty much immediately, not over a period of time.



I stored my completed wings for a over a year on a shelf built just  

below the ceiling in my dad's garage. I covered all the openings in  

the wings with metal screen to keep the critters from making nests in  

them. I built the plane from partial kits in a 24' by 8 1/2' cargo  

trailer, so I know about space challenged. I stored everything under  

the work table or some corner of the trailer until needed. When I  

completed one wing, I hung it on the side wall while I was working on  

the other.



On Feb 17, 2008, at 10:38 AM, bcchurch wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and have some  

 questions about storing the large fuselage and wing skins.



 Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in the brown shipping  

 paper or should the paper be removed?



 Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to 3 ft diameter  

 rolls and keep them that way for months to years?



 What advice would you have for the "storage-space-challenged"  

 builder to store skins?  (Besides the obvious "get more storage  

 space")  I'm particularly interested to hear how other builders have  

 overcome the space issue with the skins.  My work table is based on  

 Gary Liming's design and is resting on saw-horses so I can't have a  

 full-length shelf under the table.



 I've searched the archives but didn't have too much luck in finding  

 any clear answers.  One person stated that they removed all skins  

 from the paper and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if  

 others have gone to this amount of effort.  I've also read some  

 posts about rolling entire 4x12 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to  

 be some debate about if this can be done for long times without the  

 sheets taking a shape.




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

rjscep(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Storing skins

 	  Quote: 	
		   Not a good idea to keep the paper on. I had some 

 2024 wrapped with paper and somehow moisture got on

 the aluminum and I had to scrap it. Just keep it in

 a warm dry place. Do not archive.

--- bcchurch <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
	




 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com>

 

 I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and

 have some questions about storing the large fuselage

 and wing skins. 

 

 Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in

 the brown shipping paper or should the paper be

 removed?

 

 Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to

 3 ft diameter rolls and keep them that way for

 months to years?

 

 What advice would you have for the

 "storage-space-challenged" builder to store skins? 

 (Besides the obvious "get more storage space")  I'm

 particularly interested to hear how other builders

 have overcome the space issue with the skins.  My

 work table is based on Gary Liming's design and is

 resting on saw-horses so I can't have a full-length

 shelf under the table.

 

 I've searched the archives but didn't have too much

 luck in finding any clear answers.  One person

 stated that they removed all skins from the paper

 and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if

 others have gone to this amount of effort.  I've

 also read some posts about rolling entire 4x12

 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to be some debate

 about if this can be done for long times without the

 sheets taking a shape.  

 

 I'd appreciate your comments and advice.

 

 Thanks,

 Ben Church

 

 do not archive

 

 --------

 Ben Church

 CH801

 Racine, WI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164564#164564
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 

 

 

 



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n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Storing skins

From one Ben 801 builder to another,,,,, Welcome.. 

Your skins will store just fine either rolled up or layed out. The big issue is to keep them dry. The brown shipping paper helps prevent scratches but is a wonderful wick for gathering moisture so do your best to keep all water off on them. If they do get wet or even very moist the aluminum will get a surface corrosion.  Enjoy building the 801,,, I had a blast building mine and it goes without saying the Zenith factory guys and gals are the GREATEST !!!!!! 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "bcchurch" <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bcchurch" <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com>



I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and have some questions about storing the large fuselage and wing skins. 



Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in the brown shipping paper or should the paper be removed?



Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to 3 ft diameter rolls and keep them that way for months to years?



What advice would you have for the "storage-space-challenged" builder to store skins?  (Besides the obvious "get more storage space")  I'm particularly interested to hear how other builders have overcome the space issue with the skins.  My work table is based on Gary Liming's design and is resting on saw-horses so I can't have a full-length shelf under the table.



I've searched the archives but didn't have too much luck in finding any clear answers.  One person stated that they removed all skins from the paper and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if others have gone to this amount of effort.  I've also read some posts about rolling entire 4x12 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to be some debate about if this can be done for long times without the sheets taking a shape.  



I'd appreciate your comments and advice.



Thanks,

Ben Church



do not archive



--------

Ben Church

CH801

Racine, WI





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p================================================================================================;       - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

_================================================                        ============================================

 



_____________________________________________________________

Improve your ability to get around with a wheel chair van. Click now!

   [quote][b]

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Storing skins

I too have limited space so before my wing kit arrives for my 601XL, I thought I would build the wing storage rack that other builders use to store their wings.  I plan on using the storage racks in the wintertime when I put my plane in storage for the winter.  I'll take the wings off and put the plane and wings in my garage.  It seems like a good plan to me at least....I'm open for suggestions also.

   

  



"n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		    From one Ben 801 builder to another,,,,, Welcome..

  Your skins will store just fine either rolled up or layed out. The big issue is to keep them dry. The brown shipping paper helps prevent scratches but is a wonderful wick for gathering moisture so do your best to keep all water off on them. If they do get wet or even very moist  the aluminum will get a surface corrosion.  Enjoy building the 801,,, I had a blast building mine and it goes without saying the Zenith factory guys and gals are the GREATEST !!!!!!

  do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "bcchurch" <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bcchurch" <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com>



I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and have some questions about storing the large fuselage and wing skins. 



Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in the brown shipping paper or should the paper be removed?



Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to 3 ft diameter rolls and keep them that way for months to years?



What advice would you have for the "storage-space-challenged" builder to store skins?  (Besides the obvious "get more storage space")  I'm particularly interested to hear how other builders have  overcome the space issue with the skins.  My work table is based on Gary Liming's design and is resting on saw-horses so I can't have a full-length shelf under the table.



I've searched the archives but didn't have too much luck in finding any clear answers.  One person stated that they removed all skins from the paper and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if others have gone to this amount of effort.  I've also read some posts about rolling entire 4x12 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to be some debate about if this can be done for long times without the sheets taking a shape.  



I'd appreciate your comments and advice.



Thanks,

Ben Church



do not archive



--------

Ben Church

CH801

Racine, WI





Read this topic online  [/b] 	
[/quote]



        Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Larry,



You are a lot more ambitious than I will ever be.  I sure wouldn't look forward to undoing 14 wing bolts, two fuel connections, around eight wiring  connections, pitot and static lines, and aileron control cables; and then hooking them up again every year!  I'm looking forward to doing that the first time, but not over and over again. I'd just look for another winter storage solution. (Easy for me to say, since I live in Texas)



Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser" 

Larry H <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I too have limited space so before my wing kit arrives for my 601XL, I thought I would build the wing storage rack that other builders use to store their wings.  I plan on using the storage racks in the wintertime when I put my plane in storage for the winter.  I'll take the wings off and put the plane and wings in my garage.  It seems like a good plan to me at least....I'm open for suggestions also.

   

  



"n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> wrote:

    From one Ben 801 builder to another,,,,, Welcome..

  Your skins will store just fine either rolled up or layed out. The big issue is to keep them dry. The brown shipping paper helps prevent scratches but is a wonderful wick for gathering moisture so do your best to keep all water off on them. If they do get wet or even very moist the aluminum will get a surface corrosion.  Enjoy building the 801,,, I had a blast building mine and it goes without saying the Zenith factory guys and gals are the GREATEST !!!!!!

  do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "bcchurch" <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com> wrote:




I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and have some questions about storing the large fuselage and wing skins. 



Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in the brown shipping paper or should the paper be removed?



Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to 3 ft diameter rolls and keep them that way for months to years?



What advice would you have for the "storage-space-challenged" builder to store skins?  (Besides the obvious "get more storage space")  I'm particularly interested to hear how other builders have overcome the space issue with the skins.  My work table is based on Gary Liming's design and is resting on saw-horses so I can't have a full-length shelf under the table.



I've searched the archives but didn't have too much luck in finding any clear answers.  One person stated that they removed all skins from the paper and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if others have gone to this amount of effort.  I've also read some posts about rolling entire 4x12 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to be some debate about if this can be done for long times without the sheets taking a shape.  



I'd appreciate your comments and advice.



Thanks,

Ben Church



do not archive



--------

Ben Church

CH801

Racine, WI





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p================================================================================================;       - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

_================================================                        ============================================



_____________________________________________________________

Improve your ability to get around with a wheel chair van. Click now!



       

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Sounds like the RV-12 with its quick-remove wings is an answer:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnWrXKfh_XM



-- Craig



--

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Storing skins

I know what your saying Jay and I honestly don't look forward to it either, but I'll do what I have to do in order to keep the plane safe and out of the wintertime.  Hail, sleet and windstorms are prevalent around my area here.  I WISHED I could build a hanger right here on my property, but it seems the farmer that enticed us pilots to build here, now decided he wants to sell off our 4.5 acres end of the airstrip.....of course, all of us (pilots and wanna be pilots) trusted this man to do as he promised us all when he sold us the lots.  We got a "gentleman's handshake" and that was good enough (at the time).  Well, now since the farmer has sold off all the lots along the strip, he wants to bail out on us.  We are all thinking he THINKS he has us all over a barrel now and can command an enormous price and we'll have to pay it if we want to fly here.  What he doesn't know is, the gentleman that owes the other half of the (first 1450 feet)  strip on the north end, has told us all we will ALWAYS have a place to keep our planes....just not inside is all.  I am in the works right now to see if the rest of the pilots want to form an "association" and maybe buy the land OR take this farmer to court.  We can tie him up for years and year if he wants to play hardball now.  We'll see I guess.  For now, I'll keep building and hoping for the best.  I'll do what I have to do I guess to keep flying.

  Thanks again,

  Larry

  601XL component kits (N601LL Reserved)



Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist(at)cs.com



Larry,



You are a lot more ambitious than I will ever be. I sure wouldn't look forward to undoing 14 wing bolts, two fuel connections, around eight wiring connections, pitot and  static lines, and aileron control cables; and then hooking them up again every year! I'm looking forward to doing that the first time, but not over and over again. I'd just look for another winter storage solution. (Easy for me to say, since I live in Texas)



Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser" 

Larry H wrote:



[quote]I too have limited space so before my wing kit arrives for my 601XL, I thought I would build the wing storage rack that other builders use to store their wings. I plan on using the storage racks in the wintertime when I put my plane in storage for the winter. I'll take the wings off and put the plane and wings in my garage. It seems like a good plan to me at least....I'm open for suggestions also.

 

 



"n801bh(at)netzero.com" wrote:

 From one Ben 801 builder to another,,,,, Welcome..

 Your skins will store just fine either rolled up or layed out. The big  issue is to keep them dry. The brown shipping paper helps prevent scratches but is a wonderful wick for gathering moisture so do your best to keep all water off on them. If they do get wet or even very moist the aluminum will get a surface corrosion. Enjoy building the 801,,, I had a blast building mine and it goes without saying the Zenith factory guys and gals are the GREATEST !!!!!!

 do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "bcchurch" wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bcchurch" 



I received my full CH801 kit a few weeks back and have some questions about storing the large fuselage and wing skins. 



Is it acceptable to keep all the skins wrapped in the brown shipping paper or should the paper be removed?



Is it acceptable to loosely roll the skins into 2 to 3 ft diameter rolls and keep them that way  for months to years?



What advice would you have for the "storage-space-challenged" builder to store skins? (Besides the obvious "get more storage space") I'm particularly interested to hear how other builders have overcome the space issue with the skins. My work table is based on Gary Liming's design and is resting on saw-horses so I can't have a full-length shelf under the table.



I've searched the archives but didn't have too much luck in finding any clear answers. One person stated that they removed all skins from the paper and applied corrosion X for storage but I wonder if others have gone to this amount of effort. I've also read some posts about rolling entire 4x12 sheets of 0.040 and there seems to be some debate about if this can be done for long times without the sheets taking a shape. 



I'd appreciate your comments and advice.



Thanks,

Ben Church



do not       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Storing skins

WOW!!!  Now, that's the way to do it!  Sure wish our 601s had that kind of wing attachment.  I would probably take the wings off after every flight just for the fun of it.



Jay in Dallas

do not archive

"Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:



[quote]



Sounds like the RV-12 with its quick-remove wings is an answer:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnWrXKfh_XM



-- Craig



--

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Storing skins

Here is how I store my 4' x 12 ' sheets.



http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=9945&row=478



It was one of the first things I did to prepare the facilities.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Storing skins

2024 on the unclad side is a lot less corrosion resistant than 6061,  

but moisture is not good for either.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



> Not a good idea to keep the paper on. I had some

> 2024 wrapped with paper and somehow moisture got on

> the aluminum and I had to scrap it. Just keep it in

> a warm dry place. Do not archive.

 --- bcchurch <bcchurch(at)yahoo.com> wrote:


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

MaxNr(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Do some more investigation of Corrosion X. An acquaintance told me that he later had trouble painting bare aluminum that had been treated with Corrosion X. Something molecular happened that I'm not smart enough to explain here, but check further. Good luck. 

 Bob 

 601XL

**************

Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

      (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Like all things the quick-detach wings of the RV-12 have a trade-off: the

fuel tank is in the fuselage (and only 20 gallons).



There is another plane with a similar setup and one owner has a clever

wheeled jig that allows own person to take the wings out of the plane's

trailer, wheel them to the plane, pivot and insert them. Once the RV-12 is

out there in numbers I'm certain someone will adapt the idea to the RV-12.



-- Craig



--

LHusky(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Ben, I have stored big rolls of skins for long periods.  I was worried  that when I unrolled them, I would have trouble flattening them.  When I  unrolled them, they went flat instantly.  Roll away! 

  

 Larry Husky 

 N667H (reserved)



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Well, all sailplanes have detachable wings and they carry their "fuel" in their wings ;>)  Don't think I would want my fuel tank in the fuselage.  Surely someone could come up with quick disconnects for that and the electricals. 



Jay in Dallas

Do not archive



"Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:



[quote]



Like all things the quick-detach wings of the RV-12 have a trade-off: the

fuel tank is in the fuselage (and only 20 gallons).



There is another plane with a similar setup and one owner has a clever

wheeled jig that allows own person to take the wings out of the plane's

trailer, wheel them to the plane, pivot and insert them. Once the RV-12 is

out there in numbers I'm certain someone will adapt the idea to the RV-12.



-- Craig



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Storing skins

You could use quick-connect fuel lines but think of the weight of a wing

with a nearly full tank. Clearly the answer is a hydrogen-powered plane.

That way the tank would have negative weight 



-- Craig

Do not archive



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Storing skins

No aileron connections, No wire connections. What's up with that.



DO NOT ARCHIVE



 	  craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: 	
		  Sounds like the RV-12 with its quick-remove wings is an answer:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnWrXKfh_XM



-- Craig



--

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Flaperons with glider-like linkage, no lights, tank in fuselage.



http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm:



"Full span flaperons will hook up automatically as the wings are installed

using fittings similar to those proven over many years in sailplanes. "



-- Craig



--

bcchurch

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Racine, WI

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Storing skins

Thanks for all of the replies.  Sounds like the general consensus is that keeping things dry is top priority and that rolling skins shouldn't pose a severe risk.



Regards,

Ben Church

do not archive

_________________
Ben Church
CH801
Racine, WI

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: Storing skins

Ya know. Now that this has come up I will pass on a little tidbit. A few years ago I was at Sun & Fun about the same time I ordered my 801 kit from Zenith. 

 So, I wander over to the Vans show area and make the comment that I purchased a Zenith kit. I was bantered by several of the Vans sales people in front of other customers on buying a plane that was put together with "pop rivets". They all said a real plane had bucked rivets and that Chris Hienz designed a substandard kit using pulled rivets..............................  

Fast forward a few years,,, Wow. what is this,  Vans is using the same pulled rivets and a domed head riveter on the -12. This last year at Oshkosh I made it a point to visit the Vans area and expressed my amazement on their use of "pulled pop rivets in front of alot of their future customers... I laughed for hours....... 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>



Sounds like the RV-12 with its quick-remove wings is an answer:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnWrXKfh_XM



-- Craig



--

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