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Electrical setup for my 3300

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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: Electrical setup for my 3300

I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator).  The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and not wired direct.



My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker switch.  Based on this, I have a couple of questions:

Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid?



Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the Cessna guys?  Is there an advantage of one over the other?



Thanks ahead of time for the help...

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jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Electrical setup for my 3300

When I last talked to Pete about this, his answer was that you can use or

not use a battery solenoid as you please.  With help from others on the

list, I used a battery solenoid mainly to keep all the "live" wires in front

of the firewall when the master is off.  Since the master is actually

grounding the contactor (solenoid), there is no power passing it when it is

not grounded.  Mine is located close to the battery on the engine side of

the firewall and is the continuous type.  Sounds like you can easily make

your Composite Design box happy.  Depending on the alternator (three phase

or single phase), the alternator hookup is slightly different too.     

Jeff D



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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300

Thanks Jeff for the quick reply.  I guess I could mount my battery solenoid right next to the one for the starter.



Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type?



I was thinking of using this master relay from Spruce.



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php



It is light and easy to wire up?

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jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Electrical setup for my 3300

As I remember, it came from B&C Specialty and had the diode already wired up

saving just a bit of extra work.  I have also used Terminal Town, Aircraft

Spruce, and others for electrical stuff.  And yes, I mounted the two

solenoids close together.  A picture is attached.

Jeff



Thanks Jeff for the quick reply.  I guess I could mount my battery solenoid

right next to the one for the starter.



Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type?

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: Electrical setup for my 3300

I'll be honest here I had to read your question a couple of times to get the

gist of what you were asking.



Why does Cessna use a solenoid on the battery...  simply to isolate the

battery from the rest of the aircraft.  



The reason to do it through a solenoid is to allow for lighter wiring

carrying less amperage to the panel/switch/circuit breaker.  Also when the

current provided by the battery get's low enough the solenoid will open not

allowing the battery to completely discharge.



The use of the solenoid also gives a level of protection to the heavy cable

going from the battery to the starter.  One place the solenoid could be

turned off is if the starter jammed in the on position.  Shutting down the

battery would also shut down power to the starter motor.



The Cessna also has a second solenoid to automatically connect ground power

to the airplane for starting through the exterior connection.  One nice side

to that relay is the exterior connector can't be used to blow up air

mattresses etc.



Darned if I know if it is possible to short the electrical system through

the alternator/generator but if it is possible, then the double switches

allow the pilot to isolate one power system from the other.  Also the

engines don't require electrical power to run unless they have electric fuel

pumps so operation on batteries only, should last for several hours if

unnecessary loads are shut down.



My plane only has a 582 in it right now but I rewired it with a solenoid at

the battery to provide power to the starter.  I have a fused  link at the

solenoid protecting the energizer wire to the master switch.  The master

switch only needs to connect that wire to ground to energize the master

relay.  My generator is connected to the power buss through a circuit

breaker.  After all it is only 15A.  I also have a small wire from the

supply side of the relay that only powers my clock



BTW the solenoid used is not a starter solenoid.  Starter solenoids will

heat up and possibly burn out in short order.  The relay I used is one from

a trailer supply outlet and is normally used to wire auxiliary batteries to

cars so when the car is stopped the main battery is disconnected from the

trailer power.  Not having the relay in there can be embarrassing when you

want to start the car again only to find you have run both batteries flat.



Noel 



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Electrical setup for my 3300

In the C-185 the battery and two relays (1 for exterior power) are behind

the cargo compartment behind the passenger compartment...  So even with the

relays the heavy hot wire has to pass under the floor up to the engine

compartment.  The run from the battery to the main relay is very short as

both relays are mounted to the exterior of the battery box.



The exterior power relay has a diode on the energizer line so if the

connector is reverse wired the relay will not make the connection with the

AC battery.



Noel



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: Electrical setup for my 3300

That's the beast you want... Price is pretty good too!  



To keep your always hot 4-0 cable as short as possible mount your relay

right on the outside of your battery box.



Noel



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

ianwilson2

Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 33
Location: France

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300

Not saying this is the wrong place, but can I recommend that you guys direct your electronic questions on the Jab (or any engine) to the aeroelectric forum on this website.  The guys there REALLY know how these things hang together.



Ian Wilson

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