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new guy - a few questions

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flyboy909(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Hello.. just jointed the list and am seriously  considering the Lightning.   Just for a little background - I'm a  300 hour, former Beech Sundowner owner and was looking to get into something  faster like a Tiger.  But with the cost of avgas lately, I've been trying  to come up with something more economical to operate, but maintain as much of  the utility as possible (aside from the back seat... don't need it).  I was  thinking of building an O320 powered RV6A, then came across the Lightning, which  looks a whole lot easier to build, goes as fast or faster and is cheaper to  operate.

  

 But the big stumbling block for me is the lack of  available hangers where I am in Connecticut, and the fact that the Lightning,  being glass, might not be a good candidate to leave outside.  This might be  a temporary situation, but what's the opinion of the group on  this? 

  

 Another issue,  and I hate to bring this up, but what about the resale value of a  Lightning down the road.  I'm guessing that with something like an RV6A,  you could recoup most of your monotary investment.. maybe not your time.   But a Lightning...I'm guessing that at this point the early builders are taking  a bit of a risk? 

  

 Anyway, if I can get by these two issues i think  it's a go for me.  I've already made plans to be at Sun-N-Fun and hope to  get a ride while I'm there.

  

 Thanks for any info

 Kyle Muller

   [quote][b]

ryan(at)greenlandings.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Kyle,

  

 I just want to introduce myself. I am the mid Atlantic dealer for  Lightning and want to put an invite out to you to visit Green  Landings in West Virginia to take that demo Flight and see a few  different Lightnings that I have based on the field. Its funny that you  mention the lack of hangar space in the Conn. area. I have a customer  that built a SkyRanger with me that was also looking for hangar space  in that area and was unable to find any at a reasonable cost. He  now keeps his SkyRanger at Green Landings and travels to our  airport every couple weeks to fly. He is also interested in a  Lightning, and may consider trading up one day. Anyway just wanted to say Hi  and leave that open invitation to come to Green Landings. You will love it  here!!

 

Ryan Gross

Green Landings Flight Center,  Inc

SkyRanger Aircraft

Arion Lightning

304-754-6010



 [quote]-----Original  Message-----

From: "K Muller" <flyboy909(at)comcast.net>

To:  <lightning-list(at)matronics.com>

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:51:18  -0500

Subject: new guy - a few questions



 Hello.. just jointed the list and am seriously  considering the Lightning.   Just for a little background -  I'm a 300 hour, former Beech Sundowner owner and was looking to get  into something faster like a Tiger.  But with the cost of avgas lately,  I've been trying to come up with something more economical to operate, but  maintain as much of the utility as possible (aside from the back seat...  don't need it).  I was thinking of building an O320 powered RV6A, then  came across the Lightning, which looks a whole lot easier to  build, goes as fast or faster and is cheaper to operate.

  

 But the big stumbling block for me is the lack  of available hangers where I am in Connecticut, and the fact that the  Lightning, being glass, might not be a good candidate to leave  outside.  This might be a temporary situation, but what's the opinion  of the group on this? 

  

 Another issue,  and I hate to bring this up, but what about the resale  value of a Lightning down the road.  I'm guessing that with something  like an RV6A, you could recoup most of your monotary investment.. maybe not  your time.  But a Lightning...I'm guessing that at this point the early  builders are taking a bit of a risk? 

  

 Anyway, if I can get by these two issues i  think it's a go for me.  I've already made plans to be at Sun-N-Fun and  hope to get a ride while I'm there.

  

 Thanks for any info

 Kyle Muller

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Kyle,

   I used to fly a Beech Sierra B-24R which is known for its nose waggle with the nose gear rotating 90 on the way up.  It's basiclaly a Sundowner with more horsepower and cleaned up with retractable gear.  It was a nice plane and huge cabin for a light single.  I don't have a good answer on whether you can leave a glass airplane outside for an extended period of time or not.  I know when I was flying out of SYI, we used to leave planes out on the ramp all day.  I wouldn't want to leave any airplane that I owned outside for a really long period of time.  Nice and sunny days are ok for a while, but I worry about hail damage, other aircraft hitting the plane, etc.  If it's just a temp thing though, maybe this wouldn't be too bad.  I'll let the fiberglass guys tell you the rest.  Brian W.

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: flyboy909(at)comcast.net

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: new guy - a few questions

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:51:18 -0500

     Hello.. just jointed the list and am seriously considering the Lightning.   Just for a little background - I'm a 300 hour, former Beech Sundowner owner and was looking to get into something faster like a Tiger.  But with the cost of avgas lately, I've been trying to come up with something more economical to operate, but maintain as much of the utility as possible (aside from the back seat... don't need it).  I was thinking of building an O320 powered RV6A, then came across the Lightning, which looks a whole lot easier to build, goes as fast or faster and is cheaper to operate.

 But the big stumbling block for me is the lack of available hangers where I am in Connecticut, and the fact that the Lightning, being glass, might not be a good candidate to leave outside.  This might be a temporary situation, but what's the opinion of the group on this? 

 Another issue,  and I hate to bring this up, but what about the resale value of a Lightning down the road.  I'm guessing that with something like an RV6A, you could recoup most of your monotary investment.. maybe not your time.  But a Lightning...I'm guessing that at this point the early builders are taking a bit of a risk? 

 Anyway, if I can get by these two issues i think it's a go for me.  I've already made plans to be at Sun-N-Fun and hope to get a ride while I'm there.

 Thanks for any info

 Kyle Muller

 	  Quote: 	

" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution

Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. Play now!  [quote][b]

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Green Acres is the place to be! 

 [quote]  Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:25:14 -0500

From: ryan(at)greenlandings.com

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: new guy - a few questions

 Kyle,

 I just want to introduce myself. I am the mid Atlantic dealer for Lightning and want to put an invite out to you to visit Green Landings in West Virginia to take that demo Flight and see a few different Lightnings that I have based on the field. Its funny that you mention the lack of hangar space in the Conn. area. I have a customer that built a SkyRanger with me that was also looking for hangar space in that area and was unable to find any at a reasonable cost. He now keeps his SkyRanger at Green Landings and travels to our airport every couple weeks to fly. He is also interested in a Lightning, and may consider trading up one day. Anyway just wanted to say Hi and leave that open invitation to come to Green Landings. You will love it here!!

Ryan Gross

Green Landings Flight Center, Inc

SkyRanger Aircraft

Arion Lightning

304-754-6010

 [quote]--

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Hi Kyle,

     Welcome to the group.  I think you will fine a  great group of folks eager to help.  I agree with your assessment that the  Lightning will certainly be much quicker to build and cheaper to operate than  one of the RV models.  Even an RV quick build kit will take you much longer  than a Lightning.  If you use the builder assist program you will be flying  in about six weeks total time.  

     You asked for some opinions on the Lightning being  stored outside and its possible resale value verses an RV.  Well, let me  start out by saying that everyone has their own opinion and they may or may not  be worth exactly what you pay for them.  In this case not even $.02.   Having said that here are my thoughts:  

     I am the kind of guy that really likes my airplanes  and, other that when at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun, would never let them sit  outside.  So go to every airport in your area and get on their hangar  waiting list.  As an example, one of my hangars is over an hours drive from  my home.  Of course my other hangar is about 5 minutes away and I often  drive the 5  then fly for 15 to get to my other airplane.  But  often I do drive over an hour to fly the one that is further  away.  So start the hangar quest now and get on everyone's waiting  list.  And ask if they will allow you to put up your own portable hangar  such as the Port-a-port company.  

     Now if your Lightning absolutely has to sit  outside, I would be more worried about the avionics than the airframe.  The  Lightning is fiberglass and how long have fiberglass boats and Corvettes sat  outside?  So if it must sit outside, build it with some good tie down  fittings under the wings and then spend the money for a good cockpit cover -  maybe a complete airplane cover.  You kit will come with the new canopy  latch which should make it easy to add a lock when it is tied down.  

     As to question about re-sale value for a Lightning  down the road, your guess is as good as any ones.  However here are some  things to consider.  The Lightning has been advertised for maybe a year and  a half and in that time frame some 55 have already sold with 22 flying.  To  me that is a great response from the flying public and I see no reason the  Lightning would not remain a "top seller".  The fact that it can be  completed so quickly, looks fantastic, and performs really well on an economical  fuel burn will insure it's continued success.  There really is no direct  competition when you consider the "really quick" quick build. And the  completion rate in such a short time is probably some new record for  experimental aircraft.   Add to that the economical operation and as  fuel prices continue up, it should become even more desirable.  One  other thought, and that is in the light sport aircraft arena.  Just this  past Saturday a dealer for one of the well known light sport  aircraft presented a program on his product to one of the EAA chapters  I am in.  The price was well above that of a really nice Lightning  (with dual EFISs) completed at the factory, and of course, the performance was  no where near that of the Lightning.  And it had one of  those converted show mobile engines with a gear reduction unit  and coolant radiator to worry about.  Of course the Lightning has a real  airplane engine that sounds like a real airplane.   I kept asking  myself why would anyone buy one of these if they knew about the Lightning.   And that is probably just what is happening.  Many buyers just don't do  their homework and research what is out there.  They need to be at Sebring,  Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh just to see what is really available in the  market.  

     Well, enough from me.  I hope others on the  list will jump in here and possibly relate their personal decision process and  opinions on your questions.

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

  



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Nice response Buz, (as always…)  

   

Kyle, if it will help, go to the following address and read my comments about why I chose the lightning…  

   

Click on the picture of each airplane to go to the details.  

   

http://www.jimslightning.com/html/why_lightning_.html  

   

Jim!  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:03 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: new guy - a few questions  

  

     

Hi Kyle,  

    

    Welcome to the group.  I think you will fine a great group of folks eager to help.  I agree with your assessment that the Lightning will certainly be much quicker to build and cheaper to operate than one of the RV models.  Even an RV quick build kit will take you much longer than a Lightning.  If you use the builder assist program you will be flying in about six weeks total time.    

    

    You asked for some opinions on the Lightning being stored outside and its possible resale value verses an RV.  Well, let me start out by saying that everyone has their own opinion and they may or may not be worth exactly what you pay for them.  In this case not even $.02.  Having said that here are my thoughts:    

    

    I am the kind of guy that really likes my airplanes and, other that when at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun, would never let them sit outside.  So go to every airport in your area and get on their hangar waiting list.  As an example, one of my hangars is over an hours drive from my home.  Of course my other hangar is about 5 minutes away and I often drive the 5  then fly for 15 to get to my other airplane.  But often I do drive over an hour to fly the one that is further away.  So start the hangar quest now and get on everyone's waiting list.  And ask if they will allow you to put up your own portable hangar such as the Port-a-port company.    

    

    Now if your Lightning absolutely has to sit outside, I would be more worried about the avionics than the airframe.  The Lightning is fiberglass and how long have fiberglass boats and Corvettes sat outside?  So if it must sit outside, build it with some good tie down fittings under the wings and then spend the money for a good cockpit cover - maybe a complete airplane cover.  You kit will come with the new canopy latch which should make it easy to add a lock when it is tied down.    

    

    As to question about re-sale value for a Lightning down the road, your guess is as good as any ones.  However here are some things to consider.  The Lightning has been advertised for maybe a year and a half and in that time frame some 55 have already sold with 22 flying.  To me that is a great response from the flying public and I see no reason the Lightning would not remain a "top seller".  The fact that it can be completed so quickly, looks fantastic, and performs really well on an economical fuel burn will insure it's continued success.  There really is no direct competition when you consider the "really quick" quick build. And the completion rate in such a short time is probably some new record for experimental aircraft.   Add to that the economical operation and as fuel prices continue up, it should become even more desirable.  One other thought, and that is in the light sport aircraft arena.  Just this past Saturday a dealer for one of the well known light sport aircraft presented a program on his product to one of the EAA chapters I am in.  The price was well above that of a really nice Lightning (with dual EFISs) completed at the factory, and of course, the performance was no where near that of the Lightning.  And it had one of those converted show mobile engines with a gear reduction unit and coolant radiator to worry about.  Of course the Lightning has a real airplane engine that sounds like a real airplane.   I kept asking myself why would anyone buy one of these if they knew about the Lightning.  And that is probably just what is happening.  Many buyers just don't do their homework and research what is out there.  They need to be at Sebring, Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh just to see what is really available in the market.    

    

    Well, enough from me.  I hope others on the list will jump in here and possibly relate their personal decision process and opinions on your questions.  

    

Blue Skies,  

    

Buz

     

  



 

         

  

Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.  

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allanmaxe(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: new guy - a few questions

hi Buz this is Allan Maxwell I have bin looking at the stuff on the lightning list.If you could call me at 504-813-8134 the esqual owner in La. Or any one else with an Esqual call if you can tell me about egt you are experenceing



N1BZRich(at)aol.com wrote:   [quote]    Hi Kyle,

      Welcome to the group.  I think you will fine a great group of folks eager to help.  I agree with your assessment that the Lightning will certainly be much quicker to build and cheaper to operate than one of the RV models.  Even an RV quick build kit will take you much longer than a Lightning.  If you use the builder assist program you will be flying in about six  weeks total time.  

      You asked for some opinions on the Lightning being stored outside and its possible resale value verses an RV.  Well, let me start out by saying that everyone has their own opinion and they may or may not be worth exactly what you pay for them.  In this case not even $.02.  Having said that here are my thoughts:  

      I am the kind of guy that really likes my airplanes and, other that when at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun, would never let them sit outside.  So go to every airport in your area and get on their hangar waiting list.  As an example, one of my hangars is over an hours drive from my home.  Of course my other hangar is about 5 minutes away and I often drive the 5  then fly for 15 to get to my other airplane.  But often I do drive over an hour to fly the one that is further away.  So start the hangar quest now and get on  everyone's waiting list.  And ask if they will allow you to put up your own portable hangar such as the Port-a-port company.  

      Now if your Lightning absolutely has to sit outside, I would be more worried about the avionics than the airframe.  The Lightning is fiberglass and how long have fiberglass boats and Corvettes sat outside?  So if it must sit outside, build it with some good tie down fittings under the wings and then spend the money for a good cockpit cover - maybe a complete airplane cover.  You kit will come with the new canopy latch which should make it easy to add a lock when it is tied down.  

      As to question about re-sale value for a Lightning down the road, your guess is as good as any ones.  However here are some things to consider.  The Lightning has been advertised for maybe a year and a half and in that time frame some 55 have already sold  with 22 flying.  To me that is a great response from the flying public and I see no reason the Lightning would not remain a "top seller".  The fact that it can be completed so quickly, looks fantastic, and performs really well on an economical fuel burn will insure it's continued success.  There really is no direct competition when you consider the "really quick" quick build. And the completion rate in such a short time is probably some new record for experimental aircraft.   Add to that the economical operation and as fuel prices continue up, it should become even more desirable.  One other thought, and that is in the light sport aircraft arena.  Just this past Saturday a dealer for one of the well known light sport aircraft presented a program on his product to one of the EAA chapters I am in.  The price was well above that of a really nice Lightning (with dual EFISs) completed at the  factory, and of course, the performance was no where near that of the Lightning.  And it had one of those converted show mobile engines with a gear reduction unit and coolant radiator to worry about.  Of course the Lightning has a real airplane engine that sounds like a real airplane.   I kept asking myself why would anyone buy one of these if they knew about the Lightning.  And that is probably just what is happening.  Many buyers just don't do their homework and research what is out there.  They need to be at Sebring, Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh just to see what is really available in the market.  

      Well, enough from me.  I hope others on the list will jump in here and possibly relate their personal decision process and opinions on your questions.

  Blue Skies,

  Buz

  



  Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

EAFerguson(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Kyle,

  

 Maybe my experience in obtaining a hanger will be useful. Back before I  built my Lightning, I had a Grumman Traveler parked outside on the ramp at my  home field. I was on the waiting list for one of the few T-hangers available. I  assumed there would be a very long wait, but I visited the Manager's office just  to check. To my surprise, he looked at me and said, without hesitation, that  there would be a vacancy at the end of the month which I could have. I was  surprised (understatement), and said so. His response was that I was a regular  customer, and many of the people on the list were unknowns. Why should he rent  to them? I'll leave the name of my home field and FBO out to protect the  innocent. 

  

 I agree with Buz, get on the list for every field within reasonable range.  But get to know the decision makers.

  

 Another possibility that you should ask about is the availability of space  in the larger hangers with the corporate's. You can fit a Lightning in under the  wing of a G4. Not as good as having your own space, but better than  outside.

  

 Good Luck.

 Earl Ferguson

 Lightning #5



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Allen,

     I doubt that my EGT numbers would be much help to  you.  My airplane and engine are not the stock or standard set  up. Because my exhaust is not standard, I actually installed my probes  a little closer than recommended so that each of them could be about the same  distance from the engine.  The key is to have them read fairly close for  the cylinders on the left and the right by adjusting the Bing Carb as has been  previously discussed.  You also want to see them drop some as you go full  throttle.  

     If you have not attended the Jabiru engine seminar  at Shelbyville, you really should do so.  Once you go through the class you  will have a better understanding as to what you are looking for and how to  make that happen.  You will be glad you attended.  It is time well  spent.

 Blue Skies,

 Buz



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

allanmaxe(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

Buz thanks for the reply I got mixed up I ment cht sorry allan



N1BZRich(at)aol.com wrote:  [quote]    Allen,

      I doubt that my EGT numbers would be much help to you.  My airplane and engine are not the stock or standard set up. Because my exhaust is not standard, I actually installed my probes a little closer than recommended so that each of them could be about the same distance from the engine.  The key is to have them read fairly close for the cylinders on the left and the right by adjusting the Bing Carb as has been previously discussed.  You also want to see them drop some as you go full throttle.  

      If you have not attended the Jabiru engine seminar [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: new guy - a few questions

In a message dated 2/20/2008 8:13:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  allanmaxe(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I ment    cht 	


 

 OK, Allen, then here are some thoughts on CHTs:

     Remember the key to good cylinder cooling on the  jabiru powered Lightning or Esqual is high pressure on top of the cylinders and  low pressure under them.  That makes sure the air flows from top to bottom  through the cooling fins and thus cools the cylinders.  So make sure all  air coming in through the two nose bowl intakes can only go to the area above  the cylinders.  Close up the area between the nose bowl and the Jabiru  supplied fiberglass intake ducts to insure all intake air only goes into the  fiberglass ducts.  On the bottom cowl, to insure a lower pressure, the  Lightning cowl has a lip or "air dam" that creates a lower pressure area inside  the lower cowl. This also insures the cooling air moves from top to bottom.   I don't remember if the Esqual bottom cowl has that or not since my  airplane is total Lightning from firewall forward.  So if the Esqual does  not have a lip on the bottom cowl, make one using fiberglass or even  aluminum.  Once both of these things are done, then you can fine tune the  CHTs for individual cylinders by adding small "deflectors" inside the fiberglass  ducts over the cylinder than needs more cooling.  Start with these "eyebrow  shaped" deflectors (so they match up to the concave shape of the inside of the  ducts) being about three inches long by 3/8 inch deep.  They trim them down  if they end up blocking too much air to the cylinder behind them.  On my  set up I have two deflectors on each side over the middle and aft  cylinders.  This "experimenting" is what home built aircraft is all about -  kind of trial and error.  

     I think the hottest cylinder that I ever see on  N31BZ is around 320 during a climb out on a really hot 100 degree day here in  Virginia.  By the time I am climbing through about 3000 feet the temp then  starts back down from the high of 320 or so.  Cruise temps are all well  below 300.  So we know the above will work.

     As I mentioned in the previous e-mail.  You  really should attend the Jabiru engine seminar.  Certainly time and money  well spent.  You will not only talk about this type of thing, but will get  to actually see how the small deflectors are glued inside the intake  ducts.  

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

  



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

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