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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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 Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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Kolb guys,
Seeing as how I had laproscopic surgery this past Wednesday (hernia), I am laid up, being an email vulture. My wife has threatened me with severe bodily harm if I go out and work on my MkIII today. Sshh!! What she doesn't know won't hurt me, I hope!!
My latest creation is with the aileron control system, a deviation from the one designed originally on this plane. Again, my apologies to those that are offended at such a non-original modification( non-OEM). All I can say is, unless your plane is exactly like the plans, don't beat me up too much. I, like Fred Astair, did it MY WAY!!!
Yeah, I know it wasn't Fred Astair, it was Frank Sinatra. I was just seeing if you were paying attention. Back to my point. As I was saying, I was never a fan of the double hinge design, having to twist the flaps a little to get to the ailerons. I explored a couple of alternatives (hydraulically actuated and Morse cables), but the truth is, the one that seemed to be the easiest and most standard as seen in "factory iron" is the old tried and true pulleys, bellcranks, and cables.
Enclosed find a few photos of my latest modification. I might add this system is ROCK SOLID!! There is NO slack, the ailerons move effortlessly, and they still retain the quick disconnect ability, for folding wings. All parts were designed and custom built by me. I used authentic aircraft bellcrank bearings, cable pulleys, cables, turnbuckles, and 6061 T6 aluminum. The fact is, this is a simple design, and could have quite easily been an original system in the first place. The main thing is, I still can swings the wings, same as before.
You may also notice in the last photo my MkIII Classic to MkIII Xtra conversion is coming along quite nicely. (Are you still paying attention? Read that last sentence, again.) The side-swinging doors are painted, and ALL lexan is cut and ready to install, as soon as I finish fabric and paint. (End of March, I hope) Then on to finishing the GEO with turbo installation.
I share these modifications with those of you that have an interest in "non-standard" applications. I respect those of you who maintain your desire to retain your plane "as per plans", if that's your preference. If you don't care for my mods, I understand. As Rick G said once This is experimental aircraft." I am the kind of guy that does NOT wince at the amount of work involved to accomplish what I want.
For your perusal and comments, find the following photos.
Mike Welch
MkIII
PS. I have more photos and details if anyone is interested. I can tell you it took a couple of "tries" to get it right. There is some learning lessons about pulleys a person needs to know. Oh yeah. Parts cost about $200.
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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Very nice work Mike, I really like that idea ! My ailerons get " Springy " due to the long torque tubes on the trailing edge of the wing that actuate them twisting under flight loads. I get maybe 10 degrees or less aileron travel in the air, while I am getting 30 degrees or more on the ground. Your modification will eliminate this problem, and keeping the wings foldable, thats just a bonus.
Being that my plane is already flying, it would be difficult to change to a cable system, so I am trying a different approach. I am installing spades on the ailerons to bring down the forces to where the long aileron tubes do not twist anymore. I really like the idea of having a MK III with light, responsive ailerons.
Mike
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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Mike,
There is one thing that worries me in your aileron modification. You have four long peices of angle aluminum holding a bellcrank that are being loaded with a bending force. Even angle aluminum does not have great streingth in bend at that leingth. The forces on the cable will be several times what the forces are on your stick due to the mechanical advantage created with the stick, pulling the bellcrank inwards in with more force than you may realize. In a situation in the air, where you pull very hard on the stick , you might have enough force to bend those 4 long peices of angle aluminum inwards permanently, or at the very least get somewhat of a give and springy feeling.
I would suggest using some of that same angle aluminum to create a " Triange " that would make that area many times stronger to bending inwards, and preclude the possiblity of any springy feeling under load, or even more importantly prevent those from bending permanently inside the wing. The easiest way would be to what I have described would be to add two small peices of angle aluminum as shown in the attached picture. ( Put the same angle aluminum you have been using where the red lines are, top and bottom. )
Mike
Mike
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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Mike B.
VERY perceptive!!
FYI, I was going to do that EXACT reinforcement!! I just hadn't gotten to it, yet. There is a minor adjustment to the central bellcrank I need to do first. Once absolutely EVERYTHING is where it should be, then I was going to do any additional reinforcement bracing, those red lines being the primary braces I knew I would add. You are two steps ahead of me. I'm getting there.
BTW. When I ordered my angle aluminum from Aircraft Spruce, I didn't know which thickness to get, so I got the 1/8th" thick angle. OMG, too thick!! This stuff is industrial duty at this thickness. But still, it needs the reinforcement at the location you pointed out, regardless of it's thickness, just as a matter of proper design.
Mike Welch
| Quote: | Subject: Re: aileron bellcrank and pulleys
From: orcabonita(at)hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:15:05 -0800
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Mike,
There is one thing that worries me in your aileron modification. You have four long peices of angle aluminum holding a bellcrank that are being loaded with a bending force. Even angle aluminum does not have great streingth in at that leingth. The forces on the cable will be several times what the forces are on your stick due to the mechanical advantage created with the stick, pulling the bellcrank in with a lot of force. In a situation in the air, where you pull very hard on the stick , you might have enough force to bend those 4 long peices of angle aluminum inwards permanently, or at the very least get somewhat of a give and springy feeling.
I would suggest using some of that same angle aluminum to create a " Triange " that would make that area many times stronger to bending inwards, and preclude the possiblity of any springy feeling under load, or even more importantly prevent those from bending permanently inside the wing. The easiest way would be to what I have described would be to add two small peices of angle aluminum as shown in the attached picture. ( Put the same angle aluminum you have been using where the red lines are, top and bottom. )
Mike
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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Nice Mike your on to something there I have been thinking about doing almost the same thing you are doing with the aileron controll system Keep the mod info coming as you progress to keep my brain spinning keep up the good work
I just finished a Kitfox 2 today expecting 16 more inches of snow tonight so Going to haul it to the airport Sunday and start some test flying for the customer then finish wiring the Sky Ranger and plumb up the oil system and coolant system then hopefully I will be working on my MK3 Xtra after that
Ellery in Maine Test flying X-Air H ,Kitfox2.
do not archive
In a message dated 2/29/2008 11:59:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: |
Kolb guys,
Seeing as how I had laproscopic surgery this past Wednesday (hernia), I am laid up, being an email vulture. My wife has threatened me with severe bodily harm if I go out and work on my MkIII today. Sshh!! What she doesn't know won't hurt me, I hope!!
My latest creation is with the aileron control system, a deviation from the one designed originally on this plane. Again, my apologies to those that are offended at such a non-original modification( non-OEM). All I can say is, unless your plane is exactly like the plans, don't beat me up too much. I, like Fred Astair, did it MY WAY!!!
Yeah, I know it wasn't Fred Astair, it was Frank Sinatra. I was just seeing if you were paying attention. Back to my point. As I was saying, I was never a fan of the double hinge design, having to twist the flaps a little to get to the ailerons. I explored a couple of alternatives (hydraulically actuated and Morse cables), but the truth is, the one that seemed to be the easiest and most standard as seen in "factory iron" is the old tried and true pulleys, bellcranks, and cables.
Enclosed find a few photos of my latest modification. I might add this system is ROCK SOLID!! There is NO slack, the ailerons move effortlessly, and they still retain the quick disconnect ability, for folding wings. All parts were designed and custom built by me. I used authentic aircraft bellcrank bearings, cable pulleys, cables, turnbuckles, and 6061 T6 aluminum. The fact is, this is a simple design, and could have quite easily been an original system in the first place. The main thing is, I still can swings the wings, same as before.
You may also notice in the last photo my MkIII Classic to MkIII Xtra conversion is coming along quite nicely. (Are you still paying attention? Read that last sentence, again.) The side-swinging doors are painted, and ALL lexan is cut and ready to install, as soon as I finish fabric and paint. (End of March, I hope) Then on to finishing the GEO with turbo installation.
I share these modifications with those of you that have an interest in "non-standard" applications. I respect those of you who maintain your desire to retain your plane "as per plans", if that's your preference. If you don't care for my mods, I understand. As Rick G said once This is experimental aircraft." I am the kind of guy that does NOT wince at the amount of work involved to accomplish what I want.
For your perusal and comments, find the following photos.
Mike Welch
MkIII
PS. I have more photos and details if anyone is interested. I can tell you it took a couple of "tries" to get it right. There is some learning lessons about pulleys a person needs to know. Oh yeah. Parts cost about $200.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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Thanks, Ellery.
I am very close to having the aileron system completed. This has been a learning lesson, too, especially with regard to making the bellcranks, and most definitely trying to keep everything in line and operating smoothly.
Essentially, I have found out it is easiest if I maintain the 3 1/2" radius arm length to each side of a bellcrank. There is some geometry issues that become problematic, when I tried to vary the radius of the "swing". But, by continuing the initial 3 1/2" arm (at the rear of the center of the fuselage), I just kept that distance all the way to the last bellcrank. Pictures explain better what I am getting at.
What remains for me is to relocate the cetral pulley located in the wing gap area. It was placed too far forward to have the proper pull and push toward the side pulleys. Like I said, I learned as I went. If I get some time tomorrow, and my wife let's me (I'm still getting over that surgery I had this past Wednesday), I hope to wrap up the entire system.
I am very satisfied with the aileron control change. You can move the control stick an 1/8th of an inch, and the ailerons will move an 1/8th of an inch. The force necessary to get such action, on the ground is measured in partial ounces, or less. I will balance the ailerons, just to make sure there aren't any hidden gremlins lying in wait.
Although this has been a fairly time consuming modification, the second time around I could do it in a tenth the time. The nature of the cables is that they are loose enough not to bind, yet allow virtually friction-free motion.
By using rod ends, and pulleys, there is practically NO slack in the system, yet it operates so smoothly. If you ever got a chance to check the movement, I think you'd be impressed.
BTW, I also got around to doing that electrically operated trim tab I asked about awhile back. I splurged and bought the Ray Allen servo kit. I built my own tab, though. It works like a champ. And as usual, rock solid!!!! I'll send you photos of the entire tab, motor and hinges. The servo kit included an LED light bar, to help identify where the tab is positioned (low, neutral, high).
By the way, today it was about 72 degrees out. St George must have the finest weather on earth, as I'm sure Boyd can attest. I will miss it.
Should be swimming weather in a month. Yay!!!
Mike Welch
MkIII
________________________________
From: ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:31:47 -0500
Subject: Re: aileron bellcrank and pulleys
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Nice Mike your on to something there I have been thinking about doing almost the same thing you are doing with the aileron controll system Keep the mod info coming as you progress to keep my brain spinning keep up the good work
I just finished a Kitfox 2 today expecting 16 more inches of snow tonight so Going to haul it to the airport Sunday and start some test flying for the customer then finish wiring the Sky Ranger and plumb up the oil system and coolant system then hopefully I will be working on my MK3 Xtra after that
Ellery in Maine Test flying X-Air H ,Kitfox2.
do not archive
In a message dated 2/29/2008 11:59:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
Kolb guys,
Seeing as how I had laproscopic surgery this past Wednesday (hernia), I am laid up, being an email vulture. My wife has threatened me with severe bodily harm if I go out and work on my MkIII today. Sshh!! What she doesn't know won't hurt me, I hope!!
My latest creation is with the aileron control system, a deviation from the one designed originally on this plane. Again, my apologies to those that are offended at such a non-original modification( non-OEM). All I can say is, unless your plane is exactly like the plans, don't beat me up too much. I, like Fred Astair, did it MY WAY!!!
Yeah, I know it wasn't Fred Astair, it was Frank Sinatra. I was just seeing if you were paying attention. Back to my point. As I was saying, I was never a fan of the double hinge design, having to twist the flaps a little to get to the ailerons. I explored a couple of alternatives (hydraulically actuated and Morse cables), but the truth is, the one that seemed to be the easiest and most standard as seen in "factory iron" is the old tried and true pulleys, bellcranks, and cables.
Enclosed find a few photos of my latest modification. I might add this system is ROCK SOLID!! There is NO slack, the ailerons move effortlessly, and they still retain the quick disconnect ability, for folding wings. All parts were designed and custom built by me. I used authentic aircraft bellcrank bearings, cable pulleys, cables, turnbuckles, and 6061 T6 aluminum. The fact is, this is a simple design, and could have quite easily been an original system in the first place. The main thing is, I still can swings the wings, same as before.
You may also notice in the last photo my MkIII Classic to MkIII Xtra conversion is coming along quite nicely. (Are you still paying attention? Read that last sentence, again.) The side-swinging doors are painted, and ALL lexan is cut and ready to install, as soon as I finish fabric and paint. (End of March, I hope) Then on to finishing the GEO with turbo installation.
I share these modifications with those of you that have an interest in "non-standard" applications. I respect those of you who maintain your desire to retain your plane "as per plans", if that's your preference. If you don't care for my mods, I understand. As Rick G said once This is experimental aircraft." I am the kind of guy that does NOT wince at the amount of work involved to accomplish what I want.
For your perusal and comments, find the following photos.
Mike Welch
MkIII
PS. I have more photos and details if anyone is interested. I can tell you it took a couple of "tries" to get it right. There is some learning lessons about pulleys a person needs to know. Oh yeah. Parts cost about $200.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008=
________________________________
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azfirestar
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: aileron bellcrank and pulleys |
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The spades are an interesting idea. Has anyone tried extending the ailerons outboard and forward of the wing tips like on some of the old biplanes? (see photo) This would would make the forces lighter at all airspeeds and could provide some of the couterbalance - but I don't know how it would affect flutter.
Dan G.
503 F2
Tucson
JetPilot wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)
Very nice work Mike, I really like that idea ! My ailerons get " Springy " due to the long torque tubes on the trailing edge of the wing that actuate them twisting under flight loads. I get maybe 10 degrees or less aileron travel in the air, while I am getting 30 degrees or more on the ground. Your modification will eliminate this problem, and keeping the wings foldable, thats just a bonus.
Being that my plane is already flying, it would be difficult to change to a cable system, so I am trying a different approach. I am installing spades on the ailerons to bring down the forces to where the long aileron tubes do not twist anymore. I really like the idea of having a MK III with light, responsive ailerons.
Mike
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| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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503 Firestar II
Tucson AZ |
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