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Bill Schlatterer
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195
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 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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Just a little confused. I'm working on the prop spinner and mount and I hear folks talking about clocking the prop. Bill Boyd read something and had this to say:
"It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly if the prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning it is horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional for Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping.
Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was noticable from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively) smoother at all rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock position viewed from the front, as opposed to the traditional 10 o'clock position. "
Great, so now I am looking to mount my prop, New Hartzell BA on a O360. When I look at the prop flange, there is only one bolt that is not recessed. When I look at me crank flange, there are two bolts at 3 and 9 that will accept the unrecessed bolt. That means that I can put the prop at 3 or 9 (same orientation) but no place else. The TC mark on my flywheel is at 1 o'clock and I don't see any way to clock anything given these two flanges? Take a look.
<<...>> <<...>>
Am I missing something? Is there just one way to put the prop on this puppy?
Help appreciated.
Bill S
7a Ark sorta finishing
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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Bill Schlatterer wrote:
| Quote: |
Just a little confused. I'm working on the prop spinner and mount and
I hear folks talking about clocking the prop. Bill Boyd read something
and had this to say:
/"It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly if the prop
is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning it is
horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This
orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional
for Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping./
/Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was
noticable from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively)
smoother at all rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock
position viewed from the front, as opposed to the traditional 10
o'clock position. "/
Great, so now I am looking to mount my prop, New Hartzell BA on a
O360. When I look at the prop flange, there is only one bolt that is
not recessed. When I look at me crank flange, there are two bolts at
3 and 9 that will accept the unrecessed bolt. That means that I can
put the prop at 3 or 9 (same orientation) but no place else. The TC
mark on my flywheel is at 1 o'clock and I don't see any way to clock
anything given these two flanges? Take a look.
<<...>> <<...>>
Am I missing something? Is there just one way to put the prop on this
puppy?
Help appreciated.
Bill S
7a Ark sorta finishing
|
Hi Bill,
There's a Lyc publication that describes how to re-clock the prop, but
I'd really have to do some digging to find it. You might find a
reference to it in the archives, or (probably fastest) just call Lyc. It
involves pressing out the crank flange bushings & moving (I think it
actually says to replace) the bushings so the prop will clock where you
want it.
Charlie
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rvpilot(at)embarqmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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I can vouch for the fact that this will make your engine run noticably smoother. In order to do this , it is necessary to move some crankshaft flange bushings around. It has been 4 or 5 years since I did this but as I remember, I had to buy one or two new bushings. One of those bushings is over size (to index the ring gear) and I believe that that on has to be shorter so that it is flush with the front face of the ring gear. They can be pressed out or in by using bolt-nut-washer-various size socket combinations.
You have to check your engine parts manual for part numbers. If you don't have one, i will try to help
Bill Davis
On Mar 1, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Bill Schlatterer wrote:
[quote]
Just a little confused. I'm working on the prop spinner and mount and I hear folks talking about clocking the prop. Bill Boyd read something and had this to say:
"It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly if the prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning it is horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional for Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping.
Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was noticable from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively) smoother at all rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock position viewed from the front, as opposed to the traditional 10 o'clock position. "
Great, so now I am looking to mount my prop, New Hartzell BA on a O360. When I look at the prop flange, there is only one bolt that is not recessed. When I look at me crank flange, there are two bolts at 3 and 9 that will accept the unrecessed bolt. That means that I can put the prop at 3 or 9 (same orientation) but no place else. The TC mark on my flywheel is at 1 o'clock and I don't see any way to clock anything given these two flanges? Take a look.
<<...>> <<...>>
Am I missing something? Is there just one way to put the prop on this puppy?
Help appreciated.
Bill S
7a Ark sorta finishing <100_4383.jpg><100_4382.jpg>[b]
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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Yup, looking at the pics of your prop flange, I'd say you're screwed. Seriously, it seems they don't want you indexing the prop any way but their way, Bill.
I went back to conventional indexing at the same time I had my prop balanced by Sensenich in Pennsylvania a few years ago... the re-indexing seemed to help smoothness some, but there is no doubt that dynamic balancing did the most, even with the return to conventional prop orientation at the same time, and now I can hand-prop if I need to, like the time I left the master on all night in Cody, WY and Ben Burrill played human starter for me  while I held a 9 volt transistor battery across the battery contactor to give a bit of precious juice to the P-Mags and some more to the alternator field winding.
My testimonial in the archives about indexing is therefore a bit dated. Don't tell John Schwaner at Sac Sky Ranch, but I've since moved back onto the reservation - my prop is again indexed the same way as everyone else's 
-Bill Boyd
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Bill Schlatterer <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net (billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote]
Just a little confused. I'm working on the prop spinner and mount and I hear folks talking about clocking the prop. Bill Boyd read something and had this to say:
"It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly if the prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning it is horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional for Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping.
Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was noticable from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively) smoother at all rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock position viewed from the front, as opposed to the traditional 10 o'clock position. "
Great, so now I am looking to mount my prop, New Hartzell BA on a O360. When I look at the prop flange, there is only one bolt that is not recessed. When I look at me crank flange, there are two bolts at 3 and 9 that will accept the unrecessed bolt. That means that I can put the prop at 3 or 9 (same orientation) but no place else. The TC mark on my flywheel is at 1 o'clock and I don't see any way to clock anything given these two flanges? Take a look.
<<...>> <<...>>
Am I missing something? Is there just one way to put the prop on this puppy?
Help appreciated.
Bill S
7a Ark sorta finishing
[b]
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rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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Why not call Lycoming and your prop manufacturer just to make sure your not introducing some sort of dangerous harmonic into the situation. Of course they will say don't do it so you will have to read between the lines.
Scott
---
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Bill Schlatterer
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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See, that's what you get when you save everything I think it will just go on as is and worry later if there is a problem.
Thanks Bill S
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:36 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Clocking the prop ?
Yup, looking at the pics of your prop flange, I'd say you're screwed. Seriously, it seems they don't want you indexing the prop any way but their way, Bill.
I went back to conventional indexing at the same time I had my prop balanced by Sensenich in Pennsylvania a few years ago... the re-indexing seemed to help smoothness some, but there is no doubt that dynamic balancing did the most, even with the return to conventional prop orientation at the same time, and now I can hand-prop if I need to, like the time I left the master on all night in Cody, WY and Ben Burrill played human starter for me while I held a 9 volt transistor battery across the battery contactor to give a bit of precious juice to the P-Mags and some more to the alternator field winding.
My testimonial in the archives about indexing is therefore a bit dated. Don't tell John Schwaner at Sac Sky Ranch, but I've since moved back onto the reservation - my prop is again indexed the same way as everyone else's
-Bill Boyd
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Bill Schlatterer <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net (billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote]
Just a little confused. I'm working on the prop spinner and mount and I hear folks talking about clocking the prop. Bill Boyd read something and had this to say:
"It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly if the prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning it is horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional for Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping.
Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was noticable from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively) smoother at all rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock position viewed from the front, as opposed to the traditional 10 o'clock position. "
Great, so now I am looking to mount my prop, New Hartzell BA on a O360. When I look at the prop flange, there is only one bolt that is not recessed. When I look at me crank flange, there are two bolts at 3 and 9 that will accept the unrecessed bolt. That means that I can put the prop at 3 or 9 (same orientation) but no place else. The TC mark on my flywheel is at 1 o'clock and I don't see any way to clock anything given these two flanges? Take a look.
<<...>> <<...>>
Am I missing something? Is there just one way to put the prop on this puppy?
Help appreciated.
Bill S
7a Ark sorta finishing
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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ronschreck
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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Mike Stewart did the deed on his super RV-8. Read about it here:
http://www.mstewart.net/super8/propclock/index.htm
Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
[quote][b]
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gmcjetpilot
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: Clocking the prop ? |
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Bill:
You can just not worry about it & install you prop like
99% of all the planes's do or play bushing switch
and "clock" the prop to the 3 & 9 position, v. the std
1 & 7 position (view from cockpit) clocking. May I
suggest you install it as is and be happy? Yes there
is a difference in vibration, apparently mostly at high
rpm and power. You don't eliminate all vibration but
you do move it's freq range around. Most people who
fly before & after clocking are happy, but we are not
talking earth shaking differences (no pun). People
who balanced prop before/after, measure vibration
do note a lower vib on their vibration meter. It varies
with prop, engine.
The point is will your back side feel the difference.
It is probably worth it but you will have to decide
and switch bushings.
Make some calls (Hartzell/Lycoming) and decide.
Be careful removing & bushings.
George
>From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net (billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net)>
| Quote: | Subject: Clocking the prop ?
Just a little confused. I'm working on the prop spinner and
mount and I hear folks talking about clocking the prop. Bill
Boyd read something and had this to say:
"It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly if the
prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins,
meaning it is horizontal when the pistons are at top or
bottom dead center. This orientation is 60 degrees away
from the indexing that is traditional for Lycomings, which
is a concession to ease of hand-propping."
|
[quote][b]
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