Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

2000 hours

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Darrellhaas(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

Many engines are rated 2000 hours before total  rebuild. Does that apply just to the first time it is rebuilt. Can the rebuilt  engine go another 2000 hours? How about the 4th or 5th time? Still 2000 hours?  And people say you can buy a Continental 0-200 used. Is there a supplier that  sells used other than Continental? Continental is not very good at using the  internet to promote prices of anything. Thanks for your help.

 Darrell Haas

 601 XL Dreaming

  

    [quote][b]

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: 2000 hours

The number of hours that you can expect to get out of an engine is subject to a number of factors which is beyond the scope of this discussion.   At my airport we recently had two engines sent in for overhaul, one after 400 hours, the other after 600.  I had a Lycoming engine that I overhauled at 2100 hours (2nd overhaul) and I put another 1800 hours on it before I sold it.



If a overhaul is done properly with everything returned to "new" limits you should be able to get as much time out of it the 2nd, 3rd or ..... time around.  Your accessories will also require overhaul.



If you are looking for used engines you should get your hands on Trade a Plane or try a site like Barnstormers.   Forget about trying to deal directly with Continental.  There are used engines available out there but they will always come with questions.  Unless you have good logs with detailed information including a parts replaced list, you really can't judge the quality of the work that was done when an engine was overhauled.  When I put a C85 in my Champ a few years ago, I bought a run-out engine with a good crankcase and went thru it completely with a mechanic friend of mine.  As a result I know what I have and have faith in it.



If you are looking for a certified engine for an XL you are probably going to want either a Continental 0-200 or Lycoming 0-235.  One nice thing about experimental aircraft is that you have other engine options available to you.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: 2000 hours

I bought a used O-200 complete from Wentworth  Aircraft Salvage guaranteed to be rebuildable, sometimes they have used engines  at reasonable prices and I think they are good to work with. I bought a high  time engine that I intend to rebuild with the help of an A & P that belongs  to the same EAA Chapter I do. There are others in the same business but I  suggest you ask around to make sure they are not a fly-by-night operation. I  also spoke to Continental about parts, they have complete cylinder kits  (cylinders, gaskets, pistons, rings, etc.) priced at a total  $4068.62 for all 4 cylinders and $932.18 for the bottom end kits.  Wentworth also gave me a lead on a small company that rebuilds cylinders, their  prices for rebuildable cylinders range from $325 per cylinder to $600 for one  that needs chromed.

  

  

 Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Continental Powered

Wings, Tail & Engine  Complete

Working on Fuselage



 [quote]   ---

MHerder

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: 2000 hours

Alright, be patient with me as I am fairly new to all of this but....  Am I crazy for considering an 0-200 overhaul myself (and hopefully with the guidance of an A & P).  I'm considering a corvair conversion as well,  and I really love the Jab.  I understand that I can get a midtime  Continental for about 8,000 and rebuild a Corvair for slightly less.  The Jab unfortunately will knock your socks of at 18000 these days.  Aside from the $ I would like to gain the experience and  knowledge from rebuilding my own engine. I am literally shocked that I can find a thousand times more information on how to convert your corvair to an aircraft engine than simply how to perform your own overhaul on an o-200.   Any sources for information?



Here is my logic:



I am contemplating my own Corvair rebuild.  I believe a Corvair conversion to be slightly less reliable than a Continental or Lycosaur.  Corvair builders please dont consider this and insult as I will openly acknowledge that I am a newbie.  My beliefs are just that... The beliefs of a newbie. 



If I am contemplating my own auto conversion, then why shouldn't I consider an o-200 overhaul myself?  



Something in my head just keeps telling me that an o-200 is 1940's technology, using some common sense, having patience and the right tools with some guidance and an overhaul manual that  an overhaul should be accomplishable by anybody that would also be a candidate for a corvair rebuild.



In any case even if I purchase a mid time Cont I sure would like someone with more experience than I to perform inspections on the darn thing.

_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: 2000 hours

I was wrestling with the same problem, Continental or Lycoming, about 2 years ago.  Bought the WW Corvair manual (flycorvair.com) then made a trip to SnF to meet and talk to him.  Spent a day at his shop also and that was all it took to convince me that the Corvair engine would meet my needs.  I fly VFR and smooth air for the most part so it should work well and save me some serious money.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: 2000 hours

I bought a run out O-200 (With logbooks) from Wentworth for $2,800 with a 

replacement guarantee for any major component that cannot be returned to 

service. I was also given the name of a reputable company that rebuilds 

cylinders, the cost for best case was $325.00 each and the worst case of 

$600.00 each. The bottom end of the O-200 has a very good reputation for 

strength and reliability, check out a photo of the split case on the 

internet and you will see it has a very large front bearing. Parts, repair 

manuals, and videos showing how to rebuild the O-200 are readily available. 

I was told by Aircraft mechanics it is a very simple engine to rebuild 

compared to the auto engines I have rebuilt. I was going to rebuild it 

myself but I met a mechanic at the EAA Chapter I belong to and he agreed to 

work with me for a reasonable price, of course I will be doing the grunt 

work and the engine will remain certified.

If one prefers new, the bottom end kit from Continental is $932.18, the 

total for 4 new cylinders in the new style comes to $4068.62 with no 

exchange.

Originally I was going with Corvair but my family made it clear they would 

not fly with me unless I put a Continental or Lycoming in it, that is the 

reason for my change of heart.



I hope that helps:



Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Continental Powered



---

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

Do not archive



Hello Clyde:



We recently completed a major overhaul of a O-200A for a Cessna 150 I'm

involved with.  The following is for certified aircraft and I am commenting

without documentation in front of me.  This is an argument for buying new

cylinders rather than rebuilding old ones.  It depends what you are starting

with.



The O-200 with original Continental cylinders has a AD because of cylinder

head cracking.  The AD forces you to loose horsepower by retarding the mag

timing by 4 degrees so the full 100 HP can't be achieved, suppossedly

keeping CHT lower to avoid head cracking.



If you rebuild these older style cylinders, at whatever cost, the AD stays

and they were designed to use 80 octane fuel.



We bought four new ECI cylinders, seems like the cost was about $625. each.

This includes a new piston, rings, all valve parts EXCEPT rocker arms and

pushrods.  The wrist pin is not included, but a cyl gasket set is.



The new cylinders accomplish two things, the AD no longer applies, and

everything is built for 100 octane fuel.



New cylinders that give relief from the AD are now available from

Continental, ECI, and Superior.



I have been told by a Engine parts vendor that ECI cylinders are "longer"

that the originals.  This can cause your pushrods to be too short to achieve

book value valve clearance.  This was the case for our engine, we had to buy

oversize (over-length?) pushrods.  Once you've ground your cam, ground your

rockers, etc. all these things add up and as there is no adjustment in the

valve train, (other than the hydraulic lifters working), adding a "longer"

cylinder doesn't help.



I don't know for sure if ECI cylinders are truly longer, I was just told

that.  If others have better info, please respond.



Best Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas

---

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

Thanks Randy!



David at Wentworth told me about the AD but I totally forgot, I glad you 

brought it up. David reviewed the logbooks for me before I bought the 

run-out from him, in my case the cylinders had been replaced and the tags 

from the new replacement cylinders were taped to the last page so I should 

be good to go. On another note, $625 seems like a heck of a good deal to me. 

To those that were interested in the information on the O-200, I apologize 

for forgetting such an important item.



Regards:



Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Continental Powered



---

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

clyde--

   You might want to check the regs again.  If you hang that nice rebuilt certified engine on your experimental plane, it is no longer certified.

  

 George May

 601XL  912s



[quote] From: barcusc(at)comcast.net

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: 2000 hours

 Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:00:15 -0600

 

 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net>

 

 I bought a run out O-200 (With logbooks) from Wentworth for $2,800 with a 

 replacement guarantee for any major component that cannot be returned to 

 service. I was also given the name of a reputable company that rebuilds 

 cylinders, the cost for best case was $325.00 each and the worst case of 

 $600.00 each. The bottom end of the O-200 has a very good reputation for 

 strength and reliability, check out a photo of the split case on the 

 internet and you will see it has a very large front bearing. Parts, repair 

 manuals, and videos showing how to rebuild the O-200 are readily available. 

 I was told by Aircraft mechanics it is a very simple engine to rebuild 

 compared to the auto engines I have rebuilt. I was going to rebuild it 

 myself but I met a mechanic at the EAA Chapter I belong to and he agreed to 

 work with me for a reasonable price, of course I will be doing the grunt 

 work and the engine will remain certified.

 If one prefers new, the bottom end kit from Continental is $932.18, the 

 total for 4 new cylinders in the new style comes to $4068.62 with no 

 exchange.

 Originally I was going with Corvair but my family made it clear they would 

 not fly with me unless I put a Continental or Lycoming in it, that is the 

 reason for my change of heart.

 

 I hope that helps:

 

 Clyde Barcus

 601 XL, Continental Powered

 

 ---

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

do not archive

"On another note, $625 seems like a heck of a good deal to me."

Of course, that was 2 or 3 years ago!



Randy, Las Vegas

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

Hi George,

  

 I did check, the engine stands alone when it comes to  certification. However, to keep the certification I would not be able to do  anything but certain types of maintenance myself, it would require a certified  mechanic. One other point, it is possible to get 25 hours instead of the 40 hour  restriction. 

  

 Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Continental Powered



 [quote]   ---

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: 2000 hours

I was talking to one of the A&P instructors at MTSU a couple of days 

ago. We were talking about the 40 hour restriction period for 

homebuilts. He spoke up and said "25, if you go with a certified 

engine". I had forgotten that, as well.



Clyde: We need to touch base. Haven't heard about you project in a while.



Kevin Bonds



Clyde Barcus wrote:

[quote] Hi George,

  

 I did check, the engine stands alone when it comes to certification. 

 However, to keep the certification I would not be able to do anything 

 but certain types of maintenance myself, it would require a certified 

 mechanic. One other point, it is possible to get 25 hours instead of 

 the 40 hour restriction.

  

 Clyde Barcus

 601 XL, Continental Powered



     ---

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: 2000 hours

Anybody can maintain, repair or modify an E-AB; the repairman  

certificate isn't needed. The AB repairman certificate (or an A&P) is  

only needed for signing off the annual condition inspection.



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 For an E-LSA, however, if you use a certified engine, even if the  

 prop is not certified or was never certified in combination with the  

 engine, the E-LSA repairman license would not allow you to perform a  

 "major repair/alteration" on the "no longer certified" engine since  

 it was originally "produced under an FAA approval."



 Does that same limitation apply to the repairman certificate on an  

 amateur built?




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: 2000 hours

Do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   As to the 0-200A with ECI cylinders, my IA needed a full set of 030 push 

 rods to meet lashing specs after an overhaul of my 1972 C150L's TCM, even 

 with a brand new camshaft.  Is ECI doing something wrong?


	


I sure would like to know the answer to that.  .030" (the longest furnished 

by Continental) wouldn't bring ours into spec.  El Reno Aviation (El Reno, 

OK) sells aftermarket .070" oversize, overlength pushrods.  We had to buy 

that set for an extra $350.00 plus when there was nothing wrong with our 

standard length pushrods.



Otherwise, we think the ECI clylinders are fine in every other aspect.  If 

they are indeed making them "longer", They need to produce and start 

including a longer pushrod with each cylinder.



Again, I don't know the true story on this, but I do have my personal 

experience and the comments of others.



Thanks for responding,



Randy, Las Vegas

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: 2000 hours

Unless "things" have changed.... And they do sometimes,  IF your use, lets 

say an 0-200 in your homebuilt, all needed is to remove the data plate. 

Removing the plate puts the engine in the experimental catagory and then the 

work / inspections can be done by the "homebuilder"...



SW

---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: 2000 hours

doesn't that 25 hours need to be a certified engine/prop combination? I thought as soon as you put a different prop on it you were back to 40 hours - at least in the olden days...



Clyde Barcus <barcusc(at)comcast.net> wrote:[quote]    .hmmessage P {  PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma }    Hi George,

  

 I did check, the engine stands alone when it comes to  certification. However, to keep the certification I would not be able to do  anything but certain types of maintenance myself, it would  require a certified  mechanic. One other point, it is possible to get 25 hours instead of the 40 hour  restriction. 

  

 Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Continental Powered



 [quote]   ---

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: 2000 hours

This topic comes up all the time. To get the 25 hour phase 1 you need a certified engine/prop combo. However, once that engine is hung on your E-AB it is no longer certified, no matter who does the maintenance. If you pull the engine and want to put it into a certified aircraft, it needs to be signed off by an A+P. It's much more likely that it will be signed off without being torn down if all the work is done and documented by a certified mechanic, but there is no way to maintain its certified status while it's on your experimental. Don't mess with the data plate; you don't need to remove it to make it an experimental, and it's value in the certified world is minimal without a data plate. In any event it's pretty tough to do a thorough test protocol in 25 hours anyway, so I wouldn't fret about it too much.



Steve

Craig.Spainhower(at)exelo
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: 2000 hours

The requirement for the shorter phase 1 test period is

a certified engine and prop combination. I don't know if

the consensus standard for SLSA would allow using the	same

prop AMD uses with their 0-200 to qualify for the shorter 

test period.



Craig S.

N601XS, 601xl 0-235 lyc



 We were talking about the 40 hour restriction period for 

homebuilts. He spoke up and said "25, if you go with a certified 

engine". 



-----------------------------------------

**************************************************

This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon

Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged,

confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon

Corporation family of Companies. 

This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or

entity to which it is addressed.  If you are not the intended

recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any

dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation

to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly

prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this e-mail

in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently

delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout.

Thank You.

**************************************************

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum