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Engine changes

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EAFerguson(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: Engine changes

In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter    engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm.  The engine in the    2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should    return the lost power and rpm.  It should be a speed demon.  

   Buz

	


 

 New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?

  

 Earl



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  [quote][b]

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Engine changes

Earl,  

   

There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid lifter motors were rated (at)120hp but made a bit more than that , the first hydraulic motors made the 120hp rated but not that little extra that the last solid lifters did, so there is a new cam profile that should have that back,,,,the 3300 still makes and always has made the rated 120hp…..  

   

nick  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAFerguson(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re:Engine changes  

  

       

In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm.  The engine in the 2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should return the lost power and rpm.  It should be a speed demon.    

    

Buz  

  	
  

    

New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?  

    

   

    

Earl  

  



 

         

  

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sales(at)billandruth.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: Engine changes

Hi Nick and List,

 

 How do you determine if your engine has the latest cam installed?

 

 What is recommended for the cockpit side of the firewall as a firewall blanket for sound deadening and a thermal barrier?  Is it worth pursuing?

 

 Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson, AZ.............New canopy frame trimmed to fit cockpit sills, now working up the courage to trim the canopy!

 

 flylightning wrote: [quote]         v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  <![endif]-->             

Earl,   

    

There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid lifter motors were rated (at)120hp but made a bit more than that , the first hydraulic motors made the 120hp rated but not that little extra that the last solid lifters did, so there is a new cam profile that should have that back,,,,the 3300 still makes and always has made the rated 120hp…..   

    

nick   

          

   

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAFerguson(at)aol.com (EAFerguson(at)aol.com)

   Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM

   To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)

   Subject: Re:Engine changes   

   

          

In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com) writes:   

    	  Quote: 	
		            

To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm.  The engine in the 2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should return the lost power and rpm.  It should be a speed demon.       

          

Buz     

   	
   

      

New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?   

      

    

      

Earl   

   



   

            

   

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mark(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Engine changes

Bill,

  

 Our  upholstery shop uses 1/2" automotive dense fiber padding glued to the firewall.  Then they glue their interior carpet to that padding.

  

 As for  the cam, starting with a certain serial number all new engines have the new  cam profile. I don't know what the exact serial number is.

  

 Congratulations on your canopy frame. Actually, trimming the canopy is  the easiest part. Place the canopy on the frame and draw a line around the  canopy in the middle of the "C" channel. Trim on the line with a Dremel tool or  some sort of cut off wheel and then clean up the edge so you don't cut your  fingers. You don't have to worry about the fit against the fuselage, the canopy  skins will take care of that.

  

 Have a  great day!

  

 Mark

 [quote]   --

sales(at)billandruth.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Engine changes

Hi Mark,

 

 Thanks for the speedy reply.  Who would know what the affected engine serial numbers forward are for the updated cam?  I'm looking for a contact person, Email or phone number.

 

 Regarding trimming the canopy.  I did not communicate very well what my concern was regarding the cutting of the canopy.  I was afraid of putting a crack in the acrylic!  I had figured out where it needed to be cut and had marked it in the middle of the "C" channel on the canopy frame with masking tape so that it would be visible and less likely to crack.  

 

 Great news!!!  I was able to trim the canopy to size in just about an hour today.  I used a spiral cutout tool that I picked up at Harbor Freight.  It cost $19.95 and here is the URL for the item on their web site: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42831

 

 I used the 1/8 inch spiral bit with this tool and it works great and leaves a smooth finish cut that does not leave any sharp edges.  It is very easy to use and is much like the Roto Zip tool that sells for a great deal more.

 

 Tomorrow I plan to make holding fixtures to align the canopy frame so I can install the canopy attachment hardware and at the same time set the canopy reveal so that when the finish skins are applied the fuselage and canopy will flow smoothly together.  I plan to take some pictures and if anyone is interested I will post them.

 

 I have noticed that there is a bow in each of my flaps of anywhere from .125 to .25 inches.  Additionally the trailing edges of these flaps are wavy rather than straight.  Is this typical?  I assume that this will not be a factor in flight.  Is that indeed the case?  I suspect it will affect the gap between the wing trailing edge skin and the flap.

 

 This is a non-builder assist build which was started in October of 2007.  For those that have not finished their Lightnings as yet I think it would be great to know, by Kit Number and builder name, when the build was started.  I believe that this would be very informative for all builders especially for those not using builder assistance.

  

 Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson, AZ working on the canopy and installing the flaps.  

  [quote]    

   Our upholstery shop uses 1/2" automotive dense fiber padding glued to the firewall. Then they glue their interior carpet to that padding.

    

   As for the cam, starting with a certain serial number all new engines have the new cam profile. I don't know what the exact serial number is.

    

   Congratulations on your canopy frame. Actually, trimming the canopy is the easiest part. Place the canopy on the frame and draw a line around the canopy in the middle of the "C" channel. Trim on the line with a Dremel tool or some sort of cut off wheel and then clean up the edge so you don't cut your fingers. You don't have to worry about the fit against the fuselage, the canopy skins will take care of that.

    

   Have a great day!

    

   Mark

   [quote]     --

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Engine changes

Bill,  

   

Our interior shop installs some form of material for sound deading but it is not a thermal barrier. Also as for the horsepower difference, the 3300 still makes and always has the rated 120hp as advertised by jabiru. With the hydraulic cam there was a slight drop but not below the rated 120hp…as for the engine with the different CAM profile those engines were delivered the first of the year, I do know the specific serial #  

   

Nick  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sales Email Account

 Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:51 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes  

  

   

Hi Nick and List,

 

 How do you determine if your engine has the latest cam installed?

 

 What is recommended for the cockpit side of the firewall as a firewall blanket for sound deadening and a thermal barrier?  Is it worth pursuing?

 

 Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson,  AZ.............New canopy frame trimmed to fit cockpit sills, now working up the courage to trim the canopy!

 

 flylightning wrote:   

Earl,  

   

There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid lifter motors were rated (at)120hp but made a bit more than that , the first hydraulic motors made the 120hp rated but not that little extra that the last solid lifters did, so there is a new cam profile that should have that back,,,,the 3300 still makes and always has made the rated 120hp…..  

   

nick  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAFerguson(at)aol.com (EAFerguson(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re:Engine changes  

  

       

In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com) writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm.  The engine in the 2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should return the lost power and rpm.  It should be a speed demon.    

    

Buz  

  	
  

    

New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?  

    

   

    

Earl  

  



 

 

             

  

  

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Colin K.

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Oklahoma

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Engine changes

Bill,

  

 Thanks  for sharing your experience with the canopy. I have been using a Rotozip  especially when cutting small radius curves - it's been easier than using a  cutting wheel. However, it's difficult to cut a straight line or a long shallow  curve with a spiral bit, like I thought would have been needed on the canopy.  Still, I guess this cut does not have to be pretty as it is eventually covered  by the canopy frame on the inside and the canopy skins on the outside. I have  not come that far yet.

  

 What  do you mean by "set the canopy reveal" ?

  

 And  yes, I would be interested in your pictures.

  

 I  started my kit, at home, mid-January 2008. I am putting as much detail in my  Kitlog as I think would be helpful to other builders, but mostly they will be  learning from my mistakes! 

  

  

Colin K. 

OK 

Lightning # 52 under construction. 

http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken  

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   

   --

_________________
Colin K.
OK

sales(at)billandruth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Engine changes

Hi Colin,

 

 Regarding setting the canopy reveal, the "skins" that cover the canopy (as attached to the upper canopy flange) and bottom canopy flange are trimmed so that it rests just above the fuselage canopy sills.  According to advice I received from Arion's tech support folks the spacing here should be no bigger than the thickness of two business cards stacked together.  The reveal I am talking about is the space between the bottom canopy frame flange and the fuselage canopy sills without the skins attached.  I am attempting to establish this exact spacing (reveal) required so that when the skins are installed the transition from the fuselage and the canopy will be dead even with each other.  Hopefully, my pictures will help in explaining what I'm trying to communicate better than my word description.

 

 Canopy trimming only needs to be approximate and not "pretty."  The "skins" will hide all of that trim job for you, so don't even try to make it neat.  It's a waste of your valuable time.

 

 Thanks for providing the info I requested.  Hope to have pictures by the weekend............Bill. 

 

 Colin J. Kennedy wrote: [quote]      Message      Bill,

    

   Thanks for sharing your experience with the canopy. I have been using a Rotozip especially when cutting small radius curves - it's been easier than using a cutting wheel. However, it's difficult to cut a straight line or a long shallow curve with a spiral bit, like I thought would have been needed on the canopy. Still, I guess this cut does not have to be pretty as it is eventually covered by the canopy frame on the inside and the canopy skins on the outside. I have not come that far yet.

    

   What do you mean by "set the canopy reveal" ?

    

   And yes, I would be interested in your pictures.

    

   I started my kit, at home, mid-January 2008. I am putting as much detail in my Kitlog as I think would be helpful to other builders, but mostly they will be learning from my mistakes! 

    

      

Colin K.   

   OK 

   Lightning # 52 under construction. 

   http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken      

    

    

    

    

   [quote]     --

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Engine changes

This from the UK agent todday:

---------------------------------------------------------

The Revised cam profile came in October 2007 at 33A1684



Regards, Kevin 

-----------------------------------------------------------

Disappointing as I have # 1460 with hydraulic tappets. 

I've enquired about the new cam. Given Jabiru's normal approach I don't

expect any sort of exchange deal but you never know......

Maybe Pete can comment on what he knows/offers?



Regards, Clive



--

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Engine changes

In a message dated 3/13/2008 9:28:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  clive.james(at)uk.bp.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The    Revised cam profile came in October 2007 at  33A1684

	


 

 To all on the List,

     Thanks to Clive to getting this serial number info  out.  However, if you happen to have one of these engines do not be  concerned.  You still have a great engine that produces an honest 120  HP (or even more when broken in) and you don't have to worry about adjusting the  valves on a regular basis as many of us do.   

     I think it was me that initially mentioned this  power/rpm issue on the list some time ago after flying the original Lightning  Demo on a flight evaluation.  After my flight I casually mentioned to  Nick that the engine seems to be down slightly on top end  rpm (and thus power) when at WOT.  He confirmed that he had  also noticed this and that the factory was working on a new cam profile to get  the last few rpm back to where it was before.  The only reason I noticed  this is that I have flown enough Lightning airframe, engine, and propeller  combinations at WOT while testing different props that  I suspected something that Nick confirmed. Now really, how often will  you be running your engine at WOT (wide open throttle) so that these last few  rpm will be important?   I am willing to bet that unless you have done  lots of prop testing on Lightnings that you would never have  noticed this.  It just isn't that big a deal for the way you will be  normally operating your airplane.  All of the prop testing that Nick and I  have done is to come up with the optimum prop set up for various  airframe configurations - meaning a Lightning at various weights or the Light  Sport compliant model.  

     Bottom line - equip your Lightning the way you want  it, but when deciding how you really want to equip it, strive to keep it light  and then build it "straight".  As to building it straight, the factory now  uses a wing incidence setting tool to insure both wings are the same when they  go on the first time.  This has been discussed on the list before with a  photo of the incidence tool that Nick developed.  If you just align  the inboard wing profile with the fuselage profile, you may or may not "get it  perfect".  Only a small amount can make a difference.  Once you start  flying and you find that you have a "hands off" roll while the stick is centered  and the ailerons are neutral, the only way to fix the problem of a "heavy wing"  is to lower the flap slightly on the "heavy" side.  Of course that adds  some drag because you are increasing lift on that side, but it is what you need  to do because the other wing has a slightly higher incidence and thus slightly  more lift.  

 Now more lift on both sides means slightly more total drag, and drag is the  enemy when you want to cruise fast.  Hope this is not confusing.   

     These two things (keeping it light and building it  straight) will have more to do with higher cruise speed than the last few rpm  that your can turn when WOT with some specific propeller.  So don't sweat  it if you have one of these interim engines.  And no, Jabiru did not ask me  to say this.  I just don't want to see folks stressing about something that  really won't make much difference on the way they will operate their  aircraft. 

 Blue Skies,

 Buz 



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  [quote][b]

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: Engine changes

This is good steer from Buz as usual, just a blow to find out when you

think you have the latest engine that you don't.



The UK dealer has made the same comments as Buz regards the power,

difference small and still over 120 hp, not worth the hassle of a new

cam that will cost quite a few shillings. Cruise speed is king for me

and as long as I get a good range at a good turn of speed then that will

do. My efforts once the plane gets in the air (if ever) will be on

making it as slippery as Buz's.



The paperwork is now with the IVW (Dutch FAA) and I await feedback on

what else they need. Then CAA exemption, PFA assessement blah blah blah

Regards, Clive



The only UK Esqual...and was that a mistake...



--

selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Engine changes

Comments ex. Jabiru about a week ago.  The power increase with the new cam on the four cylinder is something less than 2 HP.  Testing on the 6 cylinder is not complete but, by extrapolation, likely to be 2 to 3 HP.



My take on this is that this whole thing is pretty much a non event, for practical purposes there will be no effect.  If in doubt, add 50 revs in the cruise and you will be at least as fast as the bloke with the new cam.  Alternatively, clean the bugs off it and give it a polish and ditto.

Cheers,  Selwyn

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