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planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co Guest
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: new statement from CH? |
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gentlemen; there is drastic difference between the +/-6G stated on the front page one of my plans (still current release page btw) and +6/-3 as stated in the clipping attributed to CH!
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
[quote][b]
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MHerder
Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: new statement from CH? |
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Taken directly from the AMD website: www.newplane.com
AMD ZODIAC
PERFORMANCE
(AT GROSS)
CONTINENTAL 0-200 (100 HP) SPECIFICATIONS (STANDARD)
CONTINENTAL 0-200 (100 HP)
CRUISE SPEED (TAS)
130 MPH
CABIN WIDTH
44 INCHES
STALL NO FLAPS (LSA)
51 MPH
EMPTY WEIGHT
770 LBS
STALL WITH FLAPS
44 MPH
GROSS WEIGHT
1320 LBS
RATE OF CLIMB
1,000 FPM
USEFUL LOAD
550 LBS
FUEL CAPACITY
30 GAL
DESIGN LOAD (ULT)
+6/-3 G
ENDURANCE 5.5 HRS
SERVICE CEILING 12,000 FT
RANGE (MILES)
715 MILES
WING AREA
132 SQ. FT
This is a good question, I have wondered the same thing on several occasions. My drawings issued in September of 07 also state Plus or Minus 6G. Obviously this is a large discrepancy. What loads were the airframe brought up to in the tests? Did they only test to +6G -3G in June or did they go +-6?
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_________________ Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying |
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Gig Giacona
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1416 Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: new statement from CH? |
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I just e-mailed this question to Zenith. So let's see what they have to say. I'll post their reply.
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_________________ W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
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Tim Juhl
![](images/avatars/6906149924722af09e2097.jpg)
Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 488 Location: "Thumb" of Michigan
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: new statement from CH? |
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My plans list ultimate loads of +/- 6 g. I would hope that if the limits have been changed that Zenith would share that info with builder / operators to avoid any confusion.
General Info on loading: Limiting loads and ultimate loads
To receive type approval certification the design of a general aviation or ultralight aircraft must conform with certain standards, among which are the in-flight manoeuvring loads plus the turbulence induced loads which the structure must be able to sustain. The turbulence loads are called the gust induced loads. FAR part 23 is the recognised world standard for light aircraft certification and the following is an extract: "... limit loads are the maximum loads to be expected in service [i.e. the highest load expected in normal operations] and ultimate loads are limit loads multiplied by a safety factor [of 1.5]. The structure must be able to support limit loads without detrimental, permanent deformation. At any load up to limit loads, the deformation may not interfere with safe operation. The structure must be able to support ultimate loads without failure for at least three seconds ..."
The minimum positive limit load factor which an aircraft in the 'normal' operational category (at maximum take-off weight) must be designed to withstand is 3.8g. For a non-aerobatic aircraft the negative limit load factor is 0.4 times the positive limit which makes it 1.5g for the normal category. The ultimate loads for the normal category are +5.7g and -2.25g. Amateur builders should aim to meet the same minimum values for limiting load and ultimate load factors. [At +6/ -3 the XL exceeds this requirement]
For aircraft with aerobatic capability the negative limit load factor must be 0.5 times the positive value. The 'utility' category (which includes training aircraft with spin certification) limit loads are +4.4g and -2.2g while the 'acrobatic' category limit loads are +6.0g and -3.0g.
Tim
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planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co Guest
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: new statement from CH? |
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please note that the 3 seconds without failure at ultimate is exactly that - if the structure fails at 3.01 seconds under steady state ultimate load it passed. There is no requirement for repeated capability. The rate of load application and incrementation is also generally used to make the test as benign as possible where transient loads resulting from turbulence or pilot error are generally pulse loads...
Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl"
My plans list ultimate loads of +/- 6 g. I would hope that if the limits have been changed that Zenith would share that info with builder / operators to avoid any confusion.
General Info on loading: Limiting loads and ultimate loads
To receive type approval certification the design of a general aviation or ultralight aircraft must conform with certain standards, among which are the in-flight manoeuvring loads plus the turbulence induced loads which the structure must be able to sustain. The turbulence loads are called the gust induced loads. FAR part 23 is the recognised world standard for light aircraft certification and the following is an extract: "... limit loads are the maximum loads to be expected in service [i.e. the highest load expected in normal operations] and ultimate loads are limit loads multiplied by a safety factor [of 1.5]. The structure must be able to support limit loads without detrimental, permanent deformation. At any load up to limit loads, the deformation may not interfere with safe operation. The structure must be able to support ultimate loads without failure for at least three seconds ..."
The minimum positive limit load factor which an aircraft in the 'normal' operational category (at maximum take-off weight) must be designed to withstand is 3.8g. For a non-aerobatic aircraft the negative limit load factor is 0.4 times the positive limit which makes it 1.5g for the normal category. The ultimate loads for the normal category are +5.7g and -2.25g. Amateur builders should aim to meet the same minimum values for limiting load and ultimate load factors. [At +6/ -3 the XL exceeds this requirement]
For aircraft with aerobatic capability the negative limit load factor must be 0.5 times the positive value. The 'utility' category (which includes training aircraft with spin certification) limit loads are +4.4g and -2.2g while the 'acrobatic' category limit loads are +6.0g and -3.0g.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online [quote][b]
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ch701builder
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 119 Location: N38.9947,W105.1305,ALT. 9,100'
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: new statement from CH? |
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Just my $0.02 worth. Here is a video of Boeing doing a "static" load test to their 777 series wing. It seems in this test that there is no account for turbulence, it is just a pure wing deflection until failure test
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planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co Guest
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: new statement from CH? |
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We do test like that - but no one here assumes that the static load is the big driver in the certification of the plane. Most of our structures are fatigue limited.
Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft(at)itt.com> wrote:[quote] Just my $0.02 worth. Here is a video of Boeing doing a "static" load test to their 777 series wing. It seems in this test that there is no account for turbulence, it is just a pure wing deflection until failure test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe9PVaFGl3o
Don't know if this helps or hurts, or has any bearing on this discussion, but it is just a data point.
Back to building my 701.
Keith
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
***********************************************************************************************
David Downey wrote: Quote: | please note that the 3 seconds without failure at ultimate is exactly that - if the structure fails at 3.01 seconds under steady state ultimate load it passed. There is no requirement for repeated capability. The rate of load application and incrementation is also generally used to make the test as benign as possible where transient loads resulting from turbulence or pilot error are generally pulse loads...
Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net> (juhl(at)avci.net) wrote: Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl"
My plans list ultimate loads of +/- 6 g. I would hope that if the limits have been changed that Zenith would share that info with builder / operators to avoid any confusion.
General Info on loading: Limiting loads and ultimate loads
To receive type approval certification the design of a general aviation or ultralight aircraft must conform with certain standards, among which are the in-flight manoeuvring loads plus the turbulence induced loads which the structure must be able to sustain. The turbulence loads are called the gust induced loads. FAR part 23 is the recognised world standard for light aircraft certification and the following is an extract: "... limit loads are the maximum loads to be expected in service [i.e. the highest load expected in normal operations] and ultimate loads are limit loads multiplied by a safety factor [of 1.5]. The structure must be able to support limit loads without detrimental, permanent deformation. At any load up to limit loads, the deformation may not interfere with safe operation. The structure must be able to support ultimate loads without failure for at least three seconds ..."
The minimum positive limit load factor which an aircraft in the 'normal' operational category (at maximum take-off weight) must be designed to withstand is 3.8g. For a non-aerobatic aircraft the negative limit load factor is 0.4 times the positive limit which makes it 1.5g for the normal category. The ultimate loads for the normal category are +5.7g and -2.25g. Amateur builders should aim to meet the same minimum values for limiting load and ultimate load factors. [At +6/ -3 the XL exceeds this requirement]
For aircraft with aerobatic capability the negative limit load factor must be 0.5 times the positive value. The 'utility' category (which includes training aircraft with spin certification) limit loads are +4.4g and -2.2g while the 'acrobatic' category limit loads are +6.0g and -3.0g.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online | |
--
************************************* *************************************
Keith Ashcraft
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft(at)itt.com (keith.ashcraft(at)itt.com)
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely [quote][b]
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