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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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Steve:
Do you know the weight of the Grover gear alone?
Our Kitfox II currently weights 520 pounds, and the gross weight is 950 pounds. Based on this information, if we add 46 pounds with the conversion, the plane will practically become a single seater.
This plane also has one modification. When I bought it, it had one wing lift strut longer thn the other, most likely due to a repair from a previous crash. I flew it like that for 10 years, no problem. When the new owner restored it, we became aware that the shorter one was from a model II and the longer was from a model III. We replaced both with brand new model III wing lift struts that we bought from John McBean. It works great! Last night I did some numbers, and found that if I fly with the owner and 9 gallons of gas, we take off 34 pounds over gross weight. It is incredible the performance we obtain from the 582 at that weight. However, it is not legal and is not the safest way to go.
Based on this information, we will need to go back to the drawing board and analyze our alternatives. In order to make it tricycle, we will need to go for a lighter, homemade alternative. Otherwise, it will have to remain taildragger...and maybe find a new, "lighter" owner.
Jose
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SkySteve
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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Jose,
Sorry, but I don't know the total weight of just the grove gear. The weight gain I quoted was for all the mods we did. The grove website lists the model 3 & 4 gear (which is the one I used) as 24.3#. You will also need axles and their website does not give the weight for them, although it would be very small. Here is their website, perhaps you can contact them and they can give you the info you want: www.groveaircraft.com Also, John McBean sells Grove products. He could probably get you the info and the parts.
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Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel |
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Fox5flyer
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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Steve, this probably doesn't apply to your situation, but taken relatively,
you can get an idea. When I was building my S5 I weighed my grove gear
complete with axles, bolts, attachments, and wheels, and it came to almost
exactly 75lbs. The Grove gear is nice, but there's definitely a weight
penalty involved. If you're trying to keep the airplane light, you might be
better off going with the standard gear and bungies. They work fine.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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SkySteve
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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Deke,
Very good point regarding the weight. The interesting point would seem to be, what is the weight difference between the standard gear and bungee vrs the Grove gear, axles, bolts, etc. Also, is it possible to use the standard gear and bungees in a trigear format like you can with the Grove gear?
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Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel |
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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When I was building my Classic 4 I considered the Grove spring gear. I remember I got the weight from either Grove or from someone on the list. What I do remember well is that the difference in installed weight between Grove and stock tube gear was 25 pounds.
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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Fox5flyer
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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I don't know the answer to your question of using the bungie gear with nose
wheel, but can't see why not. Someone here might have some "personal"
experience with it to help you out with advice. As for the difference in
weight of the bungie/Grove setup, I've heard 25lbs, but I can't verify that.
Perhaps one of the listers here has changed over and weighed both. To keep
apples to apples, both would have to be weighed with all accouterments
included exactly the same, by the same person on the same scales. I recall
someone doing that, but it's been a long time. He might chime in here. Be
careful of anecdotal evidence here. It's something to consider, but not
worth much.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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SkySteve
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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Deke,
Good points for consideration.
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Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel |
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jcorner(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Tricycle Kitfox II - Weight constraints |
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| Quote: | I,m not sure if it applies to the Kitfox but I do know that on the Avid when the conversion was made from tail dragger to trike the same bungee gear was used by simply reversing sides.
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The left gear became right and vice versa. If streamline fairings have been added to gear they would have to be removed and re-installed. The current forward gear mount is not used and the mount under the lift strut is used. Bungees work as per original. I think I measured my model 2, and the gear reversal was possible, but I love the tail dragger config.
Reversing the gear also puts the mains in the proper cg location.
Jim Corner
Model 2, 582,. Ivo med !FA, 1100 hrs
Model 5 under construction
Calgary, AB
[quote][b]
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