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Bird Strike!

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cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

This is amazing - This was on CNN.com this morning.  Watch this video:



http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/18/dnt.ca.buzzard.smashes.into.plane.kovr



Scott Laughlin

601XL/Corvair

Finished & Flying

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 05:29:47AM -0700, cookwithgas wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   This is amazing - This was on CNN.com this morning.  Watch this video:

 http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/18/dnt.ca.buzzard.smashes.into.plane.kovr


	


I saw that last night. If that's what happened to the guys in Australia, I

have no trouble believing that it caused the crash: what does having a

jagged hole in the canopy do ththe Zodiac's aerodynamics, not to mention the

utter distraction involved? That's if nobody got injured in the strike to

begin with.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC                   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com      http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (FRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer of a windshield. The right side of his windshield is gone. I would think that the fact that the top of the wind shield is attached to the wing and the side is attached to the fuse. saved the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

 

   

 

   

 

 --

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

And to add,,,, Cessna windshields are extreamly  tough....

  

 SW

 [quote]   ---

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

You mean as opposed to a bubble canopy?



 	  jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer of a windshield. The right side of his windshield is gone. I would think that the fact that the top of the wind shield is attached to the wing and the side is attached to the fuse. saved the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

 

   

 

   

 

 --

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

YES, if a bubble canopy it broken in the front I believe the wind will rip  the remaining parts off.  Jerry of GA

  

  In a message dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>



You    mean as opposed to a bubble canopy?

jeyoung65(at)aol.com    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer of a windshield.    The right side of his windshield is gone. I would think that the fact that the    top of the wind shield is attached to the wing and the side is attached to the    fuse. saved the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of    him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

     

    

  

    

     

  --


	




--------

Andy Shontz

CH601XL -    Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/ashontz





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965

	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

Do you have a design for a solid roof? I'm interested in using a windshield and doors myself instead of the bubble.



[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]YES, if a bubble canopy it broken in the front I believe the wind will rip  the remaining parts off.  Jerry of GA

  

  In a message dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz>



You    mean as opposed to a bubble canopy?

jeyoung65(at)aol.com    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer of a windshield.    The right side of his windshield is gone. I would think that the fact that the    top of the wind shield is attached to the wing and the side is attached to the    fuse. saved the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of    him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

     

    

  

    

     

  --



	




--------

Andy Shontz

CH601XL -    Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/ashontz





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965

	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

My obvious question would be, what is the windshield made out of on the Zenith Aircraft's CH601XL??  Is there such a thing as an "upgrade" we can buy to get the very best protection for the money we've spent (or spending in my case - I'm working on the tail section now)??? If not, WHY not??

  Larry H



steve <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:

  [quote]        And to add,,,, Cessna windshields are extreamly tough....

   

  SW

  [quote]  ---

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

How far out of left field are these birds coming? I had a duck in my way once about 12 years ago, even so, he was like 250 feet ahead of me when he put the brakes on and got out of the way. Looked like something out of a Daffy Duck cartoon "Feets (or in this case wings), do your duty!" In a brief second he went from flying along to striking a pose that looked like the eagle on the back of an old quarter. Just one lone duck up at like 4500 feet. If it was a flock, you'd think you'd definitely see that way ahead of time.



do not archive



[quote="skyridersbn"]My obvious question would be, what is the windshield made out of on the Zenith Aircraft's CH601XL??  Is there such a thing as an "upgrade" we can buy to get the very best protection for the money we've spent (or spending in my case - I'm working on the tail section now)??? If not, WHY not??

  Larry H



steve <notsew_evets> wrote:

  [quote]        And to add,,,, Cessna windshields are extreamly tough....

   

  SW

   	  Quote: 	
		    ---

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

Kinda make me think about polycarbonate instead of plex.

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

To answer your question, Plexiglas. And there is another guy that makes one but I don't know if it is also Plexiglas or Lexan. 



http://www.toddscanopies.com/



And his website doesn't say it but he has made 601 canopies.





 	  skyridersbn wrote: 	
		  My obvious question would be, what is the windshield made out of on the Zenith Aircraft's CH601XL??  Is there such a thing as an "upgrade" we can buy to get the very best protection for the money we've spent (or spending in my case - I'm working on the tail section now)??? If not, WHY not??

  Larry H

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Bird Strike!

Hi guys,

Geese will scatter and run right into you without trying.  Eagles and 

the soaring types are curious. If you see one of them out front, try to 

climb over them if you can.

I nearly hit one that followed my veering left and right to get past 

him.  I climbed above him at the last minute, but he was just trying to 

get a better look.

We had a twin last summer with damaged cowls, wings and leading edges 

setting on the runway after hitting a dense group of birds on takeoff, 

so there's no

good answer, but keeping an eye focused way in front of your aircraft.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



ashontz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 How far out of left field are these birds coming? I had a duck in my way once about 12 years ago, even so, he was like 250 feet ahead of me when he put the brakes on and got out of the way. Looked like something out of a Daffy Duck cartoon "Feets (or in this case wings), do your duty!" In a brief second he went from flying along to striking a pose that looked like the eagle on the back of an old quarter. Just one lone duck up at like 4500 feet. If it was a flock, you'd think you'd definitely see that way ahead of time.

mwtucker

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Charlotte, NC area

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

Has anyone seen the RANS S-19 canopy?  http://www.rans.com/S-19.htm  It looks like it is reinforced and might be stronger than the existing XL bubble; plus it slides...  I wish the XL had something like that.

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Bird Strike!

I do not have a design for a windshield canopy. I am going to build one but  my aircraft has several changes to it so my parts will not fix any other  aircraft. I will extend the turtleback so it will come up to the gull doors. The  top will have about four inch of sheet metal between the doors. The  windshield will start at the instrumental panel. Using 3/4" tubes to support the  windshield and turtleback. Still not happy with the door stiffness. so may  change then again. I used 1/2 by 3/4" angles to form the doors last time.  Jerry of GA  

  In a message dated 3/19/2008 2:47:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>

Do    you have a design for a solid roof? I'm interested in using a windshield and    doors myself instead of the bubble.

[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]YES,    if a bubble canopy it broken in the front I believe the wind will rip     the remaining parts off.  Jerry of GA

  In a message    dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org    writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -->    Zenith-List message posted by:    "ashontz" 

 You    mean as opposed to a bubble    canopy?

 jeyoung65(at)aol.com       wrote:

 >  Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer    of a windshield.    The right side of his windshield is gone. I    would think that the fact that the    top of the wind shield is    attached to the wing and the side is attached to the    fuse. saved    the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of       him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

    >      

 >     

    >   

 >     

 >         

 >   --

 > 

 > 

 --------

 Andy Shontz

 CH601XL -       Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 Read this topic online    here:

    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the    video on AOL Home    (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).

 	  Quote: 	
		   [b]

--------

Andy Shontz

CH601XL -    Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

Read this topic online    here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171012#171012

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Bird Strike!

In addition to the nice sliding canopy the Rans S-19 also has nice seats.

But it came in overweight. I think these points are connected.



"EMPTY WEIGHT and ENGINE CHOICES



The thinner canopy weight savings has added up to about a 9 pounds ( this

far below the 40 pounds I was hoping for!). The estimated all optioned out,

fully equipped empty weight is 830. That includes a full interior, and glass

cockpit. Other parts have been put on a diet and could result in a slightly

lower empty weight. Keep in mind this is a fully equipped plane, and we are

combing the airframe for weight reductions. The bottom line however is our

hopes of using either the 0-200 or 0-235 and keeping in LSA is fading. In a

way this is a good thing, since those engines are shaky, old tech, and use

much more fuel. The 912ULS despite the price increase is still the best

choice for those wanting a legal LSA that will perform well just about

anywhere you can legally fly an LSA in the USA. The other engine choice we

intend to explore, or at least provide a mounting kit is the Jabiru."

http://www.rans.com/S19progress11-21-07.htm



On the other hand the second RV-12 prototype flew on March 11th and weighs

738 lbs. But it is also a Rotax-only plane. Life is full of trade-offs.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm



-- Craig



--

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Bird Strike!

Thanks Gig.  I was talking with my wife about it and told her the whole story about bird strikes.  She wasn't amused to say the least, but DID understand my concerns.  She is thinking it is an excellent idea to try finding a stronger, better windshield when the time comes.  



  Thanks again,

  Larry H

  

Do Not Archive



  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

The point of that picture was to show that you probably aren't going to find a stronger, better windshield when the time comes.



Any improvement would be incremental. The windshields on any light plane (and even military utility helicopters designed to fly low and medium fast) just ain't up to a large bird strike.



Now that I've written all this I realize that I don't know if you are replying to the info on Todd's Canopies or the bird vs Blackhawk photo.



Either way Build, Fly, Enjoy.



And quit talking to your wife about flying. Especially the cost.   



 	  skyridersbn wrote: 	
		  Thanks Gig.  I was talking with my wife about it and told her the whole story about bird strikes.  She wasn't amused to say the least, but DID understand my concerns.  She is thinking it is an excellent idea to try finding a stronger, better windshield when the time comes.  



  Thanks again,

  Larry H

  

Do Not Archive

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Bird Strike!

I'm interested in your progress on this. Keep me informed please.

[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]I do not have a design for a windshield canopy. I am going to build one but  my aircraft has several changes to it so my parts will not fix any other  aircraft. I will extend the turtleback so it will come up to the gull doors. The  top will have about four inch of sheet metal between the doors. The  windshield will start at the instrumental panel. Using 3/4" tubes to support the  windshield and turtleback. Still not happy with the door stiffness. so may  change then again. I used 1/2 by 3/4" angles to form the doors last time.  Jerry of GA  

  In a message dated 3/19/2008 2:47:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz>

Do    you have a design for a solid roof? I'm interested in using a windshield and    doors myself instead of the bubble.

[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]YES,    if a bubble canopy it broken in the front I believe the wind will rip?    the remaining parts off.  Jerry of GA

  In a message    dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org    writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -->    Zenith-List message posted by:    "ashontz" 

 You    mean as opposed to a bubble    canopy?

 jeyoung65(at)aol.com       wrote:

 >  Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer    of a windshield.    The right side of his windshield is gone. I    would think that the fact that the    top of the wind shield is    attached to the wing and the side is attached to the    fuse. saved    the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of  ?    him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

    >      

 >     

    >   

 >     

 >  ?      

 >   --

 > 

 > 

 --------

 Andy Shontz

 CH601XL -  ?    Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 Read this topic online    here:

    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the    video on AOL Home    (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).

 	  Quote: 	
		   [b]

--------

Andy Shontz

CH601XL -    Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

Read this topic online    here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171012#171012

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Bird Strike!

Gig, You are NOT going to believe this but it was my WIFE'S IDEA that I purchase this plane to keep me "out of trouble and keeping me busy"......She said at least she knows I am fullfilling a lifelong dream by building the 601 AND we will be able to use it to travel with after she finishes up her education.  She even went as far as to tell me also, "this isn't going to be the ONLY airplane your going to want to build, is it?".  She knows me all too well.....I have been blessed with such a loving, caring wife Gig.  I adore her. 

   

  Larry Hursh



Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" 



The point of that picture was to show that you probably aren't going to find a stronger, better windshield when the time  comes.



Any improvement would be incremental. The windshields on any light plane (and even military utility helicopters designed to fly low and medium fast) just ain't up to a large bird strike.



Now that I've written all this I realize that I don't know if you are replying to the info on Todd's Canopies or the bird vs Blackhawk photo.



Either way Build, Fly, Enjoy.



And quit talking to your wife about flying. Especially the cost.  

skyridersbn wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks Gig. I was talking with my wife about it and told her the whole story about bird strikes. She wasn't amused to say the least, but DID understand my concerns. She is thinking it is an excellent idea to try finding a stronger, better windshield when the time comes. 

 

 Thanks again,

 Larry H

 

 Do Not Archive

 


	




--------

W.R. "Gig" Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: Bird Strike!

OK  Jerry

  In a message dated 3/20/2008 8:38:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>

I'm    interested in your progress on this. Keep me informed    please.

[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]I do not have a design for a    windshield canopy. I am going to build one but  my aircraft has several    changes to it so my parts will not fix any other  aircraft. I will extend    the turtleback so it will come up to the gull doors. The  top will have    about four inch of sheet metal between the doors. The  windshield will    start at the instrumental panel. Using 3/4" tubes to support the     windshield and turtleback. Still not happy with the door stiffness. so    may  change then again. I used 1/2 by 3/4" angles to form the doors last    time.  Jerry of GA  

  In a message dated    3/19/2008 2:47:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org    writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -->    Zenith-List message posted by:    "ashontz" 

 Do    you have a design for a solid    roof? I'm interested in using a windshield and    doors myself    instead of the bubble.

    [quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]YES,    if a bubble canopy it broken    in the front I believe the wind will rip?    the remaining parts    off.  Jerry of GA

   In a    message    dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight    Time,  ashontz(at)nbme.org    writes:

    >  -->    Zenith-List message posted by:       "ashontz" 

 >  

 >  You    mean as    opposed to a bubble    canopy?

 >  

    >  

 >  jeyoung65(at)aol.com          wrote:

 >  

 >  >  Looking at the    aircraft makes me a believer    of a windshield.    The    right side of his windshield is gone. I    would think that the fact    that the    top of the wind shield is    attached to the    wing and the side is attached to the    fuse. saved    the    pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in front of  ?       him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA

    >     >      

 >     >     

 >     >      

 >  >     

 >  >     ?      

 >  >   --

    >  > 

 >  > 

 >        

 >  

 >  --------

 >  Andy    Shontz

 >  CH601XL -  ?    Corvair

    >  www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 >  

 >     

 >  

 >     

 >  Read    this topic online    here:

 >  

 >        http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965

    >  

 >     

 >  

 >    

 > 

 Create a Home    Theater Like the Pros. Watch the    video on AOL Home       (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).

 >  [b]

 > 

 >    

 --------

 Andy Shontz

 CH601XL    -    Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 Read this topic online    here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171012#171012

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros.    Watch the video on AOL Home    (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).

 	  Quote: 	
		   [b]

--------

Andy Shontz

CH601XL -    Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

Read this topic online    here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171370#171370

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

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