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wjones(at)BRAZORIAINET.CO
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Canopy

Hello group ,I am in the process of fitting my  canopy .The frames and front & rear tubes all seem to fit the canopy good .I  have not drilled any holes in the plastic canopy yet .My questions are  :

     What sequence of drilling   should I use .Should I drill the bubble to the tubes/bows first then fit the  flashing or is there a better way .Also I am not too happy with the front inside  flashing fit ,this is at the front bow location ,any and all suggestions  will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 Wade Jones    South Texas 

601XL  plans building

Cont. 0200

   [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Canopy

The best suggestion I can give you for the front flashing is to not use it. I played with it some and never got it to a point I liked.



And yes the canopy is attached to the front and rear tubes first starting in the middle and working you way out.



 	  wjones(at)BRAZORIAINET.CO wrote: 	
		  Hello group ,I am in the process of fitting my  canopy .The frames and front & rear tubes all seem to fit the canopy good .I  have not drilled any holes in the plastic canopy yet .My questions are  :

     What sequence of drilling   should I use .Should I drill the bubble to the tubes/bows first then fit the  flashing or is there a better way .Also I am not too happy with the front inside  flashing fit ,this is at the front bow location ,any and all suggestions  will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 Wade Jones    South Texas 

601XL  plans building

Cont. 0200

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: Canopy

Hi Wade,



Drilling center to sides is best for the canopy to bows. If possible, 

don’t use the flashing. If you can get the bubble to set within half an 

inch of the skins, you could use just the rubber trim to get the seal 

needed. The internal flashings are a little awkward, but perhaps you can 

get some of the perspective w/progression from my canopy page.



http://www.macsmachine.com/html/canopy.htm

I think the canopy without a front edge flashing is simpler to do, 

performs just as well and looks better.

Take a look at the internal forward view to see how I terminated the 

inside flashing.

If you need more specific detail, do ask,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com





wade jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hello group ,I am in the process of fitting my canopy .The frames and 

 front & rear tubes all seem to fit the canopy good .I have not drilled 

 any holes in the plastic canopy yet .My questions are :

 What sequence of drilling should I use .Should I drill the bubble to 

 the tubes/bows first then fit the flashing or is there a better way 

 .Also I am not too happy with the front inside flashing fit ,this is 

 at the front bow location ,any and all suggestions will be greatly 

 appreciated. Thanks

 Wade Jones South Texas

 601XL plans building

 Cont. 0200

dbrown(at)avecc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Canopy

When drilling the holes is the canopy, do not use a cleco or any other device to pull the canopy down to the tube if the space is more the 1/8in.  If you do have a space more the 1/8in. either correct the tube or us a shim.  

   

David brown  

N601EX  

     

.Should I drill the bubble to the tubes/bows first then fit the flashing or is there a better way .Also I am not too happy with the front inside flashing fit ,this is at the front bow location ,any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks  

    

Wade Jones    South Texas 

 601XL plans building

 Cont. 0200  

  [quote] [b]

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:38 am Post subject: canopy

If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.



The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.



I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the  cowl and cracked the  fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the  nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...



If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.





  Dave Downey

  Harleysville (SE) PA

  100 HP Corvair

   [quote][b]

twcroy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: canopy

I replaced my canopy last year with one from Todd's Canopies that is ~50% thicker.  Not sure how much more protection if any it provides for a bird strike.  Todd claims it's quieter and I guess it is a little.  You can find his site at http://www.toddscanopies.com/  and ask about the thicker canopy.  It fit in my original frame with no problems.

   

 Tim

 601HDS



 

 On 3/20/08, David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com (planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: [quote]If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.

 

The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.

 

I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...

 

If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.





  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 

[b]

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: canopy

If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take note of it.  I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind.  I'm not at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.  My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith.  And if there is one, how much stronger is it than the original?  This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area.  They constantly feed in the cornfield behind my house - right next to the airstrip.   I HAVE been in a goose strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time.  It really did damage to the aircraft.

   

  Any information is appreciated.

  Larry Hursh

  N601LL Reserved

  CH601XL Waiting on  my wing kit to arrive



David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.



The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.



I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: canopy

Larry,



For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe.  Even the airframe will not withstand a goose strike without damage. No disrespect intended, but if your local situation is that risky, you should not consider flying ANY airplane there.



Jay in Dallas

Larry H <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take note of it.  I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind.  I'm not at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.  My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith.  And if there is one, how much stronger is it than the original?  This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area.  They constantly feed in the cornfield behind my house - right next to the airstrip.   I HAVE been in a goose strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time.  It really did damage to the aircraft.

   

  Any information is appreciated.

  Larry Hursh

  N601LL Reserved

  CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive



David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.



The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.



I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...



If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.





    Dave Downey

  Harleysville (SE) PA

  100 HP Corvair



  



       

---------------------------------

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: canopy

Jay, thanks for bringing us back to the reality of the issue.  Good thing this isn't a Pietenpol list.  Imagine their conversation about bird strike protection!

  

 Larry Winger

 601XL/Corvair

 Tustin, CA

   	  Quote: 	
		  

For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe.  Even the airframe will not withstand a goose strike without damage. 	
   

 [quote]Jay in Dallas

 



Larry H <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com (skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take note of it.  I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind.  I'm not at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.  My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith.  And if there is one, how much stronger is it than the original?  This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area.  They constantly feed in the cornfield behind my house - right next to the airstrip.   I HAVE been in a goose strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time.  It really did damage to the aircraft.

 >
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    Any information is appreciated.

  Larry Hursh

  N601LL Reserved

  CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive



David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com (planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 >  If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
	


 >

 	  Quote: 	
		  The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.

 >
	




 >I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		  If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.





    Dave Downey

 >  Harleysville (SE) PA
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    100 HP Corvair


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  ---------------------------------

  
	


 



  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: canopy

All this talk of bird strikes reminds me of a story  told to me by an old (20000 hr.) ex. RAF pilot friend, who spent much of his  time flying Hercules (C130?).

  

 Once, when he was based in Scotland, he had just  taken off when a flock of seagulls had the same idea. The noise was deafening  and they took out 3 of his engines. He managed to get it back on the runway and  the engines had to be replaced.

  

 The following morning he went to the hangar to find  some poor soul picking bits of seagull out of the intakes. The RAF insisted on  all bird strikes being reported with species and number. Apparently he was  counting the feet and dividing by 2 (the feet being the last bit to go  in).

  

 He had pulled 13 from one engine  alone.

  

 Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but it just shows  what a few (fairly small) birds can do to even a large aeroplane.

  

 Dave Johnson

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: canopy

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  People, a windshield is a WIND shield. You want bird-proof, you wind up  with 3/4" thick polycarbonate, surrounded by a massive metal frame. If nobody's  looking, go steal a windshield and canopy off a Warthog, and build a plane to  lift it. But don't expect any GA plane to ward off anything bigger than  bumblebees.

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 [quote]   ---

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: canopy

If someone has a real concern about surviving a bird strike in their 601, I would think that the best investment would be a helmet with a face shield. Something like the ones dirt bikers wear. Military pilots wear helmets to increase survivability. It would work for civilians just as well. I agree with the other posts that any bird-strike-resistant canopy would be too heavy. I would think that the combination of a good dirt bike helmet plus a supportive head rest might give you a fighting chance to survive the impact with an uninvited feathered guest, all for a couple pounds and a hundred bucks or so.



 Terry



 

 At 03:31 AM 3/20/2008 -0700, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.



 The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.



 I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...



 If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.



 



 

 Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  



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[/b] 	
	
 

 

 Terry Phillips

 ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

 Corvallis MT

 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings

 http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/     [quote][b]

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: canopy

I can tell you haven't been in a bird strike have you?   If you ever have, you would want the BEST windshield money can buy (and NOT just ..090 plexiglass either)......It's not to ward off only birds per-say but to at least afford you as much protection as possible from anything bad coming your way.  That's only common sense, correct?  Once you have been through it,  it DOES leave a lasting impression on you.....scary part was, we never saw the geese coming.  They came from our left wing and passing right in front of us.  We COULDN'T avoid them....we was at NINE THOUSAND FEET!!

   

  LH



paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:

  [quote]      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->     People, a windshield is a WIND shield. You want bird-proof, you wind up with 3/4" thick polycarbonate, surrounded by a massive metal frame. If nobody's looking, go steal a windshield and canopy off a Warthog, and build a plane to lift it. But don't expect any GA plane to ward off anything bigger than bumblebees.

   

  Paul Rodriguez

  [quote]  ---

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: canopy

Yeah, I hear you Jay and I do understand what you are saying.  I built my home here 3 years ago BECAUSE there is an existing airstrip (2650' long) sod strip that other pilots use also.  There are 4 other planes and 2 power parachutes here and believe it or not, NO ONE here has ever hit a goose - yet.  If anyone would hit one, it would be MY luck.  I told my wife the truth that ANY flight is dangerous, but so is driving a car.  She agreed.  So I will keep this all in the back of my mind when the time comes to put on the windshield.  I think if I was to be able to find something stronger, the plane wouldn't lift off the ground because of the extra weight!  (bullet proof about 4 inches thick!) LOL  

  Larry H

   

  

Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message  posted by: Jaybannist(at)cs.com



Larry,



For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe. Even the airframe will not withstand a goose strike without damage. No disrespect intended, but if your local situation is that risky, you should not consider flying ANY airplane there.



Jay in Dallas

Larry H wrote:



[quote]If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information. My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that  can be purchased in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much stronger is it than the original? This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did damage to the aircraft.

 

 Any information is appreciated.

 Larry Hursh

 N601LL Reserved

 CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive



David Downey wrote:

 If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the  form.



The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.



I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...



If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.





 Dave Downey

       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: canopy

do not archive

...and since most animals do not detect danger that approaches faster than they can travel, the birds probably do not see the Piet as a threat...

Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com> wrote:[quote] Jay, thanks for bringing us back to the reality of the issue.  Good thing this isn't a Pietenpol list.  Imagine their conversation about bird strike protection!

 Larry Winger

 601XL/Corvair

 Tustin, CA

   	  Quote: 	

For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly not geese. Any canopy that will,  without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe.  Even the airframe will not withstand a goose strike without damage. 	

 [quote]Jay in Dallas

Larry H <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com (skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take note of it.  I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind.  I'm not at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.  My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith.  And if there is one, how much  stronger is it than the original?  This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area.  They constantly feed in the cornfield behind my house - right next to the airstrip.   I HAVE been in a goose strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time.  It really did damage to the aircraft.

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		    Any information is appreciated.

  Larry Hursh

  N601LL Reserved

  CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive

David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com (planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 >  If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to  destabilize the form.

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		  The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.

 >

 >I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...

 >

[quote]If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an   [quote][b]

Craig.Spainhower(at)exelo
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: canopy

I have a canopy from Todd's and can attest to its strength (definitely thicker than .090"). It may not be bullet proof but it would probably defeat all but the most determined bird from entering. The idea that hitting any little tweaty bird with the canopy is a death sentence seems more than a little ridiculous. The shape of the canopy should lend strength to an already tough material and I plan to stay subsonic for most of my flights. If you do happen to hit a Canadian Goose at 175 kts squarely at the base of the canopy it probably will be joining you, anything less may just make a big mess. Still best just knot to find out. I cut my canopy to make a separate windshield and can attest to the fact that there was no measurable thinning at any point.



Craig S.

N601XS (reserved only, but not for much longer)



I replaced my canopy last year with one from Todd's Canopies that is ~50%

thicker.  Not sure how much more protection if any it provides for a bird

strike.  Todd claims it's quieter and I guess it is a little.  You can find

his site at http://www.toddscanopies.com/  and ask about the thicker

canopy.  It fit in my original frame with no problems.



-----------------------------------------

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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Canopy

Bird strike story.... I hit a bird at night once in a 172 while cruising at about 2000 feet.  It made a mighty thump and had me digging out the flashlight to inspect the wings.  Apparantly I "cored" him on the heated pitot as the pitot hole was packed full of meat.  The fuel tank vent was bent backwards parallel with the bottom skin.  Gore and feathers trailed back from there.  To get the meat out of the pitot I ended up turning the heat on and cooking it to a consistency where it would all pull out in one long piece.  From the feathers I suspect the bird was a starling.



Tim



Do not archive

_________________
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Champ L16A flying
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Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

minoxphotographer(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: canopy

Funny thing....I'm also on the Pietenpol list!  In over a year on both

lists, I was noticing today that the Piet gang NEVER has a thread about

a crash, OR a bird strike.  And I'm thinking there are a heck of a lot

more Piets out there than Zeniths. Then again, in a Piet the only bird

strikes may be birds running into the tail!



Tim in Bovey



...and since most animals do not detect danger that approaches faster

than they

      can travel, the birds probably do not see the Piet as a threat...

      

      Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com> wrote: Jay, thanks for

bringing us back to

      the reality of the issue.  Good thing this isn't a Pietenpol

list.  Imagine their

      conversation about bird strike protection!



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