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patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: skis

Kitfoxers, Skis, I want to build a set of skis. I  have pictures of 2 designs of wheel skis from this site. They look like great  designs fabricated from steel tubing. One design is made of square tubing  and the other is fabricated from round tubing I was wondering about what  size wheels and tires to run. I have large 18" OD rough field tires similar  to the Kingfoxes. I would imagine smaller, maybe 16" OD tires and  narrower are what is needed. How do wheel skis mount on the axle? Do  you need to swap in a longer axle to accept the ski bushings on either side of  the wheel?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL 

   [quote][b]

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: skis

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  There is lots of good info in the archives. Also John Perry knows stuff  about skis, he would be a good source to ask questions. 

  

 Dee Young

 Model II

 N345DY

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

LarryM

Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Genoa, IL

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: skis

Hey Pat,



  I have a set of skis that you could use as a pattern.  I live in Genoa.

815-784-3476

larry

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: skis

Pat-

I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD, penetrate 2",  

but I would make that less next time.

My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware shown.  

I'm looking for pics of outer "axle."



The square aluminum block is bolted to the inner surface of the Grove  

gear, and I added a zerk fitting to the ski at the bearing area. The  

1/2" outer axle slides into the Grove axle.



This was a slow year for ski flying for me. Only about 27 hrs logged  

since late Dec. Bad weather for the Oshkosh Skiplane Fly-in cut into  

my available time this winter. They are off now.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual



On Mar 24, 2008, at 5:51 PM, Pat Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Kitfoxers, Skis, I want to build a set of skis. I have pictures of  

 2 designs of wheel skis from this site. They look like great  

 designs fabricated from steel tubing. One design is made of square  

 tubing and the other is fabricated from round tubing I was  

 wondering about what size wheels and tires to run. I have large 18"  

 OD rough field tires similar to the Kingfoxes. I would imagine  

 smaller, maybe 16" OD tires and narrower are what is needed. How do  

 wheel skis mount on the axle? Do you need to swap in a longer axle  

 to accept the ski bushings on either side of the wheel?



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: skis

Lynn, Thanks for the photos. You really put some time and work into your skis. I saw a picture on the archives of a pair Deke Morisse built from plastic snowmobile skis(not wheel skis though) that are ingeniously simple.

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skis

 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:12 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 Pat-

 I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD, penetrate 2", 

 but I would make that less next time.

 My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware shown. 

 I'm looking for pics of outer "axle."

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: skis

Larry, Thanks, I plan on coming over there when it warms up. I want to mwwt you.

  

 Do not archive.

  

 Pat Reilly



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: skis

 From: CrownLJ(at)verizon.net

 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:02:31 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "LarryM" <CrownLJ(at)verizon.net>

 

 Hey Pat,

 

 I have a set of skis that you could use as a pattern. I live in Genoa.

 815-784-3476

 larry

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172432#172432

 

 

 

 > ========================> 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: skis

Thanks, Pat...the next pair will be wider, and maybe repositionable.  

I may even try my hand at making them out of aluminum sheet instead  

of the tubing.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual



On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, Thanks for the photos. You really put some time and work into  

 your skis. I saw a picture on the archives of a pair Deke Morisse  

 built from plastic snowmobile skis(not wheel skis though) that are  

 ingeniously simple.

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: skis

 > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:12 -0400

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > Pat-

 > I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD, penetrate 2",

 > but I would make that less next time.

 > My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware shown.

 > I'm looking for pics of outer "axle."



 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: skis

Lynn, You mean your going to build anothe pair! I saw a pair of ingeniously adapted plastic snowmobile skis done by Deke Morrisse on www.sportflight.com. They are the other end of the spectrum in time and $ spent from yours. I just might use his technique and add skateboard wheels protruding through the bottom to roll in and out of the hanger.

  

 Do not archive

  

 Pat reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL 



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: skis

 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:39:45 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Thanks, Pat..the next pair will be wider, and maybe repositionable. 

 I may even try my hand at making them out of aluminum sheet instead 

 of the tubing.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 

 

 

 On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Lynn, Thanks for the photos. You really put some time and work into 

 > your skis. I saw a picture on the archives of a pair Deke Morisse 

 > built from plastic snowmobile skis(not wheel skis though) that are 

 > ingeniously simple.

 > Do not archive

 > Pat Reilly

 > Mod 3 Rebuild

 > Rockford,IL

 >

 > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > Subject: Re: skis

 > > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:12 -0400

 > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > Pat-

 > > I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD, penetrate 2",

 > > but I would make that less next time.

 > > My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware shown.

 > > I'm looking for pics of outer "axle."

 >

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 > ========== _- 

 > forums.matronics.com_- 

 > ========== _- 

 > contribution_- 

 > ==========

 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: skis

I get so much drag with the tires poking through as far as they do,  

and if I was to reduce that penetration to 1" instead of 2", I could  

close up the hole that the tire protrudes through. Or, another school  

of thought is to make the skis hydraulically operated, and instead of  

a hole in the shoe for tire protrusion, make a notch like I have seen  

on other skis, where the tire fits into a notch. Then the ski is  

kinda "L" shaped, with the wide part of the ski out front like the  

bottom of the "L", and the tire fitting into the notch which is the  

included angle between the bottom of the "L"  and the vertical part.  

With this arrangement, there is no part of the shoe that will try to  

undercut the snow and cause drag. This is what I fight now with shoe  

area right behind the tire. I've seen this type of ski in pictures,  

and I've surmised that it could be built as a rigid setup, or  

possibly as a hydraulically-actuated lowering ski, that would take  

the tire drag right out of the picture.



As a sport Pilot, I might not be able to get away with any form of  

"repositionable" landing arrangement, however the FAA has approved  

repositionable wheels for a couple of models of LSA water-landing  

crafts, so the door has been opened.



I think it would be fun to try and make them out of aluminum sheet,  

formed and riveted into a structural shape, then apply the nylon/ 

plastic/UHMW material on the bottom as a means to keep the shoe from  

freezing/sticking to the surface.



I've seen pictures of Deke's, and his (no wheels) work well up in his  

"neck of the woods" where they get more snow than down south here,  

and it probably stays around longer. Down south here...160-some  

miles...the snow comes and goes all winter long. Deke might even be  

subjected to more lake effects snow, being close to Lake Huron. I am  

lower mid-state, and we kind of get what's left over from battering  

both sides of the state with snow. So, due to the vagaries of our  

snowfall, I need wheels on the plane all the time.



Just thinking out loud some of the reasons for building mine the way  

I did/do.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:35 AM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, You mean your going to build anothe pair! I saw a pair of  

 ingeniously adapted plastic snowmobile skis done by Deke Morrisse  

 on www.sportflight.com. They are the other end of the spectrum in  

 time and $ spent from yours. I just might use his technique and add  

 skateboard wheels protruding through the bottom to roll in and out  

 of the hanger.



 Do not archive



 Pat reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: skis

 > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:39:45 -0400

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Thanks, Pat...the next pair will be wider, and maybe repositionable.

 > I may even try my hand at making them out of aluminum sheet instead

 > of the tubing.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 >

 >

 >

 > On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 >

 > > Lynn, Thanks for the photos. You really put some time and work  

 into

 > > your skis. I saw a picture on the archives of a pair Deke Morisse

 > > built from plastic snowmobile skis(not wheel skis though) that are

 > > ingeniously simple.

 > > Do not archive

 > > Pat Reilly

 > > Mod 3 Rebuild

 > > Rockford,IL

 > >

 > > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > > Subject: Re: skis

 > > > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:12 -0400

 > > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > >

 > > > Pat-

 > > > I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD,  

 penetrate 2",

 > > > but I would make that less next time.

 > > > My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware  

 shown.

 > > > I'm looking for pics of outer "axle."

 > >

 > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-

 > > ========== _-

 > > forums.matronics.com_-

 > > ========== _-

 > > contribution_-

 > > ==========

 >

 >

 >



 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: skis

Got ya covered Lynn...

 [url=http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/0/db3949786adf3cf6862572c600597b19!OpenDocument]http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/0/db3949786adf3cf6862572c600597b19!OpenDocument[/url]

   

 Federal Aviation Administration



14 CFR Part 1

[Docket No. FAA-2007-27160; Amendment No. 1-56]



RIN 2120-AI97

Changes to the Definition of Certain Light-Sport Aircraft 



 Preamble Information 

 Preamble Information

AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT.

 

ACTION: Direct final rule; request for comments.

SUMMARY: This action corrects an unintended consequence created when we adopted the original Light-Sport Aircraft (LSA) Rule; we did not have sufficient information at that time to foresee this difficulty. This action amends the definition of an LSA in two areas. The changes will (1) permit development of lighter-than-air (LTA) LSA, and (2) allow retractable landing gear for LSA intended for operation on water. The LTA change will result in a common land-based LSA maximum takeoff weight limit and allow the LTA LSA industry to design and build safe, functional LTA aircraft. Allowing retractable landing gear for LSA intended for operation on water recognizes the realities of the operation of these LSA and will also enhance the growth of that industry.

 

Steve

 84KF

 KF5\912UL

  [quote][b]

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: skis

Opps skis...not floats...my bad. 



Steve, with foot in mouth  [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: skis

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net] 

 With this arrangement, there is no part of the shoe that will try to  

 undercut the snow and cause drag. This is what I fight now with shoe  

 area right behind the tire. 


	


Yep! Good thinking, Lynn! I haven't used my skis this winter because the snow hasn't come ... before now. But my experience is exctly the same as yours and your L-shape idea sounds very good to me.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



do not archive

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: skis

Lynn, Yes the wheel skis are much more convient in our witer climate where snow comes and goes. I was just impressed with the simplesity of his adaption. 

  

 Do not archive

  

 Pat Reilly



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skis

 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:50:19 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 I get so much drag with the tires poking through as far as they do, 

 and if I was to reduce that penetration to 1" instead of 2", I could 

 close up the hole that the tire protrudes through. Or, another school 

 of thought is to make the skis hydraulically operated, and instead of 

 a hole in the shoe for tire protrusion, make a notch like I have seen 

 on other skis, where the tire fits into a notch. Then the ski is 

 kinda "L" shaped, with the wide part of the ski out front like the 

 bottom of the "L", and the tire fitting into the notch which is the 

 included angle between the bottom of the "L" and the vertical part. 

 With this arrangement, there is no part of the shoe that will try to 

 undercut the snow and cause drag. This is what I fight now with shoe 

 area right behind the tire. I've seen this type of ski in pictures, 

 and I've surmised that it could be built as a rigid setup, or 

 possibly as a hydraulically-actuated lowering ski, that would take 

 the tire drag right out of the picture.

 

 As a sport Pilot, I might not be able to get away with any form of 

 "repositionable" landing arrangement, however the FAA has approved 

 repositionable wheels for a couple of models of LSA water-landing 

 crafts, so the door has been opened.

 

 I think it would be fun to try and make them out of aluminum sheet, 

 formed and riveted into a structural shape, then apply the nylon/ 

 plastic/UHMW material on the bottom as a means to keep the shoe from 

 freezing/sticking to the surface.

 

 I've seen pictures of Deke's, and his (no wheels) work well up in his 

 "neck of the woods" where they get more snow than down south here, 

 and it probably stays around longer. Down south here...160-some 

 miles...the snow comes and goes all winter long. Deke might even be 

 subjected to more lake effects snow, being close to Lake Huron. I am 

 lower mid-state, and we kind of get what's left over from battering 

 both sides of the state with snow. So, due to the vagaries of our 

 snowfall, I need wheels on the plane all the time.

 

 Just thinking out loud some of the reasons for building mine the way 

 I did/do.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 

 

 On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:35 AM, patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Lynn, You mean your going to build anothe pair! I saw a pair of 

 > ingeniously adapted plastic snowmobile skis done by Deke Morrisse 

 > on www.sportflight.com. They are the other end of the spectrum in 

 > time and $ spent from yours. I just might use his technique and add 

 > skateboard wheels protruding through the bottom to roll in and out 

 > of the hanger.

 >

 > Do not archive

 >

 > Pat reilly

 > Mod 3 Rebuild

 > Rockford, IL

 >

 > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > Subject: Re: skis

 > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:39:45 -0400

 > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > >

 > > Thanks, Pat..the next pair will be wider, and maybe repositionable.

 > > I may even try my hand at making them out of aluminum sheet instead

 > > of the tubing.

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Grass Lake, Michigan

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200

 > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 > >

 > > > Lynn, Thanks for the photos. You really put some time and work 

 > into

 > > > your skis. I saw a picture on the archives of a pair Deke Morisse

 > > > built from plastic snowmobile skis(not wheel skis though) that are

 > > > ingeniously simple.

 > > > Do not archive

 > > > Pat Reilly

 > > > Mod 3 Rebuild

 > > > Rockford,IL

 > > >

 > > > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > > > Subject: Re: skis

 > > > > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:12 -0400

 > > > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > > >

 > > > > Pat-

 > > > > I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD, 

 > penetrate 2",

 > > > > but I would make that less next time.

 > > > > My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware 

 > shown.

 > > > > I'm looking for pics of outer "axle."

 > > >

 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-

 > > > ========== _-

 > > > forums.matronics.com_-

 > > > ========== _-

 > > > contribution_-

 > > > ==========

 > >

 > >

 > >

 >

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 > ========== _- 

 > forums.matronics.com_- 

 > ========== _- 

 > contribution_- 

 > ===========

 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: skis

Thanks, Steve....I'd take their words   "(2) allow retractable  

landing gear for LSA intended for operation on water"  and go with  

it. My thinking is that it's not my fault that "their" water got  

turned to snow or ice. : )  Jeez...I shoulda been a lawyer!



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

do not archive

On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:10 PM, 84KF wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Got ya covered Lynn...

 http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/ 

 0/db3949786adf3cf6862572c600597b19!OpenDocument



 Federal Aviation Administration



 14 CFR Part 1

 [Docket No. FAA-2007-27160; Amendment No. 1-56]



 RIN 2120-AI97

 Changes to the Definition of Certain Light-Sport Aircraft



 Preamble Information

 Preamble Information

 AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT.



 ACTION: Direct final rule; request for comments.

 SUMMARY: This action corrects an unintended consequence created  

 when we adopted the original Light-Sport Aircraft (LSA) Rule; we  

 did not have sufficient information at that time to foresee this  

 difficulty. This action amends the definition of an LSA in two  

 areas. The changes will (1) permit development of lighter-than-air  

 (LTA) LSA, and (2) allow retractable landing gear for LSA intended  

 for operation on water. The LTA change will result in a common land- 

 based LSA maximum takeoff weight limit and allow the LTA LSA  

 industry to design and build safe, functional LTA aircraft.  

 Allowing retractable landing gear for LSA intended for operation on  

 water recognizes the realities of the operation of these LSA and  

 will also enhance the growth of that industry.



 Steve

 84KF

 KF5\912UL

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: skis

Just to keep me from getting a swelled head, it wasn't my idea for  

the "L" shape...I'm just seeing what others have built and borrowing  

their ideas.

Thanks, Michel...



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

do not archive

On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> With this arrangement, there is no part of the shoe that will try to

> undercut the snow and cause drag. This is what I fight now with shoe

> area right behind the tire.



 Yep! Good thinking, Lynn! I haven't used my skis this winter  

 because the snow hasn't come ... before now. But my experience is  

 exctly the same as yours and your L-shape idea sounds very good to me.



 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



 do not archive

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">



 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>



 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: Re: skis

[quote="avidfox"]Opps skis...not floats...my bad. 



Steve, with foot in mouth   	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Steve, I would argue that the snow or ice that Lynn would be landing on is actually water that is a bit cold..  I would argue it just the same as they did for amphibs, and get a ruling that retractable skis are no different.



Just my argumentative side, that I am sure you were unaware I had.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: skis

Ya should have worn that helmet.....



  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: skis

And to set the record even straighter, it was Leonard's brother John  

that sent me some valuable info when I was building my skis. This was  

before he went back to the frozen tundra, right Leonard?



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

do not archive

On Mar 25, 2008, at 3:09 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 [quote="avidfox"]Opps skis...not floats...my bad.



 Steve, with foot in mouth

> [b]

 Steve, I would argue that the snow or ice that Lynn would be  

 landing on is actually water that is a bit cold..  I would argue it  

 just the same as they did for amphibs, and get a ruling that  

 retractable skis are no different.



 Just my argumentative side, that I am sure you were unaware I had. 



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 95% complete





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172595#172595

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: skis

Look at it this way:

 The aircraft configuration is  intended for use on land, and IAW the regs, landing gear IS fixed....Nothing in the regs say the skis cannot used, or that said skis cannot be retractable.

   

 As always, we must not make things seem worse by ASSUMING the FAA says something, when in reality, they haven't.



 Steve

 84KF   



  [quote][b]

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: skis

Lynn, that is correct that John sent the drawings I think, also correct he is my brother.  

One trick we use is to have a plate that covers the hole in the ski so when we get out in the back country, and find ourselves in deep snow, you let the air out of the tire, roll the plate between the ski and tire then put enough air back in the tire to hold it.  This will make a virtually impossible takeoff very easy.  I know guys that landed just fine but there was too much drag for them to be able to take off again with wheel penetration skis.  The spent alot of time on snowshoes packing a runway.



The best way I have seen to make this plate it to make your cut out in the ski at a bevel not a straight cut.  Then you cut out your plate on a bevel so it will drop in flush with the cut out.  You have then made a set of normal straight skis with very little drag in the snow.

Steve, a VERY valid point.  the wheels would remain fixed therefor the primary gear is fixed, not retractable... very good point, i would argue that one all day long too, but then again, I just love to argue, especially with an official.

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