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aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.
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 Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: AD COMPLIANCE -THE FINAL ANSWER |
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ARE AD's APPLICABLE TO EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT?
After listening to all sides of this argument for the last period of time, I sought to find out the real answer. I feel that I did. It lies in Paragraph 8 in FAA Advisory Circular AC39-7C dated 11/16/95 -it is the latest version and supercedes AC 39-7B, Airworthiness Directives, dated April 8, 1987. THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY HERE.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/EA051001B2CE246E862569B500508099?OpenDocument&Highlight=experimental
An excerpt from the above AC follows:
EXCERPT
*************************************************
8. APPLICABILITY OF AD's. Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the
product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft
owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than
standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited,
or experimental category. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth
in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness
certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are
used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying
the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to
serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected. The following are examples of AD applicability
statements:
a. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series airplanes, certificated in
any category." This statement, or one similarly worded, makes the AD applicable to all airplanes
of the model listed, regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate issued to the aircraft.
b. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 Serial Numbers 15-1081
through 15-1098." This statement, or one similarly worded, specifies certain aircraft by serial
number within a specific model and series regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate
issued to the aircraft.
c. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series aircraft certificated in all
categories excluding experimental aircraft." This statement, or one similarly worded, makes the
AD applicable to all airplanes except those issued experimental airworthiness certificates.
d. "Applicability: Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series airplanes; Cessna
Models 150, 170, 172, and 175 series airplanes; and Piper PA-28-140 airplanes; certificated in
any category, that have been modified in accordance with STC SA807NM using ABLE
INDUSTRIES, Inc., (Part No. 1234) muffler kits." This statement, or one similarly worded,
makes the AD applicable to all airplanes listed when altered by the supplemental type certificate
listed, regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate issued to the aircraft.
e. Every AD applies to each product identified in the applicability statement, regardless
of whether it has been modified, altered, or repaired in the area subject to the requirements of the
AD. For products that have been modified, altered, or repaired so that performance of the
requirements of the AD is affected, the owner/operator must use the authority provided in the
alternative methods of compliance provision of the AD (see paragraph 12) to request approval
from the FAA. This approval may address either no action, if the current configuration
eliminates the unsafe condition; or, different actions necessary to address the unsafe condition
described in the AD. In no case, does the presence of any alteration, modification, or repair
remove any product from the applicability of this AD. Performance of the requirements of the
AD is “affected” if an operator is unable to perform those requirements in the manner described
in the AD. In short, either the requirements of the AD can be performed as specified in the AD
and the specified results can be achieved, or they cannot.
*************************************************
-END OF EXCERPT-
The clincher is the statement: "Some aircraft owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited, or experimental category."
END OF DISPUTE !
(but not necessarily the end of discussion)
The waters do get muddier when figuring out what applies to experimentals, how to comply, FAA enforcement of compliance and the like, but AD's *do* apply to us. There is no question of that as I read it.
Scott S.
RV-4, Cessna 140
A&P mechanic 18 years
[quote][b]
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: AD COMPLIANCE -THE FINAL ANSWER |
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Thanks Scott. And I think even an obtuse thanks to Mike Robertson, to whom I continue to hold a lot of respect for.
I will query in writing the legal department of the FAA in Washington through Mike’s former (FSDO NM-09) to get my own comfort level higher. I have heard both sides for years and remain concerned how people can hold dear to their hearts (and their passions) that our rules do not apply to them specifically. Somehow “Exceptions and Experimentals” seem to run on the same logic. Mike used a reference of some update Aircraft Certification Management Team date April 28-30, 1998.
I concur with your interpretation of AC39-7C and await a clear and cogent, unambiguous final resolution in writing, (since 1995 was a long time ago) in the evolution of Experimental Aircraft. I have not found such with my EAA Headquarters. This issue will play central to the 51% NPRM on the total overhaul that the FAA is bent on leveling against OBAM.
John Cox
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SCOTT SPENCER
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:32 AM
To: aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net; rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AD COMPLIANCE -THE FINAL ANSWER
ARE AD's APPLICABLE TO EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT?
After listening to all sides of this argument for the last period of time, I sought to find out the real answer. I feel that I did. It lies in Paragraph 8 in FAA Advisory Circular AC39-7C dated 11/16/95 -it is the latest version and supercedes AC 39-7B, Airworthiness Directives, dated April 8, 1987. THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY HERE.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/EA051001B2CE246E862569B500508099?OpenDocument&Highlight=experimental
An excerpt from the above AC follows:
EXCERPT
*************************************************
8. APPLICABILITY OF AD's. Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the
product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft
owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than
standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited,
or experimental category. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth
in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness
certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are
used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying
the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to
serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected. The following are examples of AD applicability
statements:
a. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series airplanes, certificated in
any category." This statement, or one similarly worded, makes the AD applicable to all airplanes
of the model listed, regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate issued to the aircraft.
b. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 Serial Numbers 15-1081
through 15-1098." This statement, or one similarly worded, specifies certain aircraft by serial
number within a specific model and series regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate
issued to the aircraft.
c. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series aircraft certificated in all
categories excluding experimental aircraft." This statement, or one similarly worded, makes the
AD applicable to all airplanes except those issued experimental airworthiness certificates.
d. "Applicability: Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series airplanes; Cessna
Models 150, 170, 172, and 175 series airplanes; and Piper PA-28-140 airplanes; certificated in
any category, that have been modified in accordance with STC SA807NM using ABLE
INDUSTRIES, Inc., (Part No. 1234) muffler kits." This statement, or one similarly worded,
makes the AD applicable to all airplanes listed when altered by the supplemental type certificate
listed, regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate issued to the aircraft.
e. Every AD applies to each product identified in the applicability statement, regardless
of whether it has been modified, altered, or repaired in the area subject to the requirements of the
AD. For products that have been modified, altered, or repaired so that performance of the
requirements of the AD is affected, the owner/operator must use the authority provided in the
alternative methods of compliance provision of the AD (see paragraph 12) to request approval
from the FAA. This approval may address either no action, if the current configuration
eliminates the unsafe condition; or, different actions necessary to address the unsafe condition
described in the AD. In no case, does the presence of any alteration, modification, or repair
remove any product from the applicability of this AD. Performance of the requirements of the
AD is “affected” if an operator is unable to perform those requirements in the manner described
in the AD. In short, either the requirements of the AD can be performed as specified in the AD
and the specified results can be achieved, or they cannot.
*************************************************
-END OF EXCERPT-
The clincher is the statement: "Some aircraft owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited, or experimental category."
END OF DISPUTE !
(but not necessarily the end of discussion)
The waters do get muddier when figuring out what applies to experimentals, how to comply, FAA enforcement of compliance and the like, but AD's *do* apply to us. There is no question of that as I read it.
Scott S.
RV-4, Cessna 140
A&P mechanic 18 years
[quote] [b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: AD COMPLIANCE -THE FINAL ANSWER |
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In a message dated 3/29/2008 12:37:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
| Quote: | 8. APPLICABILITY OF AD's. Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the
product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft
owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than
standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited,
or experimental category. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth
in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness
certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are
used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying
the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to
serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected. The following are examples of AD applicability
statements:
|
Herein lies the issue. I have received numerous ADs in the mail and I always check applicability. Sometimes they referred to my wife's Cessna by name. I have never had one refer to one manufactured by Van's. I made sure by checking the name of the manufacturer on the airworthy certificate and the airframe data plate and surprisingly it was much like mine (definitely not Van's). Then I checked the data plate on the engine to see if the engine was a Lyc or Cont (as referred to in the AD) and it also didn't apply as the manufacturer name, as noted on the plate, also was similar to mine, serial #0001. My conclusion? The AD didn't apply to the experimental I owned but possibly to someone else's.
Jim
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
[quote][b]
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Dan Reeves
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: AD COMPLIANCE -THE FINAL ANSWER |
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I dunno,,,seems a little like "poking the bear" to me...
The references sited below are pretty clear. Thanks for tracking these down by the way!
Pretty soon I'm gonna need a forklift in order to pick up my new FAR book each year because of all of the clarifications that come down from on high...
Dan
Do not archive
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
[quote] Thanks Scott. And I think even an obtuse thanks to Mike Robertson, to whom I continue to hold a lot of respect for.
I will query in writing the legal department of the FAA in Washington through Mike’s former (FSDO NM-09) to get my own comfort level higher. I have heard both sides for years and remain concerned how people can hold dear to their hearts (and their passions) that our rules do not apply to them specifically. Somehow “Exceptions and Experimentals” seem to run on the same logic. Mike used a reference of some update Aircraft Certification Management Team date April 28-30, 1998.
I concur with your interpretation of AC39-7C and await a clear and cogent, unambiguous final resolution in writing, (since 1995 was a long time ago) in the evolution of Experimental Aircraft. I have not found such with my EAA Headquarters. This issue will play central to the 51% NPRM on the total overhaul that the FAA is bent on leveling against OBAM.
John Cox
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SCOTT SPENCER
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:32 AM
To: aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net; rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AD COMPLIANCE -THE FINAL ANSWER
ARE AD's APPLICABLE TO EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT?
After listening to all sides of this argument for the last period of time, I sought to find out the real answer. I feel that I did. It lies in Paragraph 8 in FAA Advisory Circular AC39-7C dated 11/16/95 -it is the latest version and supercedes AC 39-7B, Airworthiness Directives, dated April 8, 1987. THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY HERE.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/EA051001B2CE246E862569B500508099?OpenDocument&Highlight=experimental
An excerpt from the above AC follows:
EXCERPT
*************************************************
8. APPLICABILITY OF AD's. Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the
product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft
owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than
standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited,
or experimental category. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth
in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness
certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are
used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying
the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to
serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected. The following are examples of AD applicability
statements:
a. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series airplanes, certificated in
any category." This statement, or one similarly worded, makes the AD applicable to all airplanes
of the model listed, regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate issued to the aircraft.
b. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 Serial Numbers 15-1081
through 15-1098." This statement, or one similarly worded, specifies certain aircraft by serial
number within a specific model and series regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate
issued to the aircraft.
c. "Applies to Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series aircraft certificated in all
categories excluding experimental aircraft." This statement, or one similarly worded, makes the
AD applicable to all airplanes except those issued experimental airworthiness certificates.
d. "Applicability: Smith (Formerly Robin Aero) RA-15-150 series airplanes; Cessna
Models 150, 170, 172, and 175 series airplanes; and Piper PA-28-140 airplanes; certificated in
any category, that have been modified in accordance with STC SA807NM using ABLE
INDUSTRIES, Inc., (Part No. 1234) muffler kits." This statement, or one similarly worded,
makes the AD applicable to all airplanes listed when altered by the supplemental type certificate
listed, regardless of the type of airworthiness certificate issued to the aircraft.
e. Every AD applies to each product identified in the applicability statement, regardless
of whether it has been modified, altered, or repaired in the area subject to the requirements of the
AD. For products that have been modified, altered, or repaired so that performance of the
requirements of the AD is affected, the owner/operator must use the authority provided in the
alternative methods of compliance provision of the AD (see paragraph 12) to request approval
from the FAA. This approval may address either no action, if the current configuration
eliminates the unsafe condition; or, different actions necessary to address the unsafe condition
described in the AD. In no case, does the presence of any alteration, modification, or repair
remove any product from the applicability of this AD. Performance of the requirements of the
AD is “affected” if an operator is unable to perform those requirements in the manner described
in the AD. In short, either the requirements of the AD can be performed as specified in the AD
and the specified results can be achieved, or they cannot.
*************************************************
-END OF EXCERPT-
The clincher is the statement: "Some aircraft owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited, or experimental category."
END OF DISPUTE !
(but not necessarily the end of discussion)
The waters do get muddier when figuring out what applies to experimentals, how to comply, FAA enforcement of compliance and the like, but AD's *do* apply to us. There is no question of that as I read it.
Scott S.
RV-4, Cessna 140
A&P mechanic 18 years
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
012345678[quote][b]Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. W00t [quote][b]
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