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Black paint

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rcsfca

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 10
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: Black paint

Paint jobs that are predominantly black are rather rare but I've come up with a re-paint scheme that is exactly that, although the design includes substantial red and orange stripes for contrast. 



Has anyone taken a close look at the use (or rejection) of black paint as it relates to excessive cabin heating on sunny days, gas tank expansion, or navigation perception problems? Or other troubles, if any?



-

-

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Rich Cunningham

Model IV - 1200/912

SF Bay Area

avidfox

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: Black paint

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: Black paint

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: rcsfca [r66rc-matronics(at)yahoo.com]

 Has anyone taken a close look at the use (or rejection) of black paint


	


If I remember correctly, someone on this list once wrote that the US air force found out that black is the most visible colour for an aircraft in the sky. My Kitfox is dark blue and even in the Norwegian climate, it warms up the wing tanks in the summer and I can see petrol evaporating from the cover vents.

One solution is then to paint the top fuselage and wing tanks white as the French Broussard aircraft were. (here is the link of a Norwegian Broussard with the original French paint work): http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0442553



If, in addition you paint the nose, wing tips and rudder in bright orange, you'll get a quite visible aircraft in the air and on the ground. I am not too sure how sexy it will look but, at least, it will be functional.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Black paint

It looks pretty visible to me, Michel, as viewed on page 45 of  

Kitplanes, April 2008 issue. : )

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

On Mar 29, 2008, at 4:45 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   If, in addition you paint the nose, wing tips and rudder in bright  

 orange, you'll get a quite visible aircraft in the air and on the  

 ground. I am not too sure how sexy it will look but, at least, it  

 will be functional.



 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Black paint

I believe it was Don Smythe, Newport News, VA (formerly on the list and one  hell of a nice guy) that had the problem with his model IV.  I saw his  aircraft (can't remember the color right now) and it had heated up enough  to shrink the tapes at a different rate than the cover fabric on the top of the  wing.  The temps inside the wing were measured and they were very  high.  I would avoid the dark colors just based on his  experience.  Also, there is no doubt, if the tanks were filled in the  cool of the evening and subsequently left in the sun, the fuel would expend and  run out the vents.

  

 Rick  Weiss

Series V Speedster - N39RW, 912S Power



DO NOT ARCHIVE   

  In a message dated 3/29/2008 12:48:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  r66rc-matronics(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kitfox-List message posted by: "rcsfca"    <r66rc-matronics(at)yahoo.com>



Paint jobs that are predominantly    black are rather rare but I've come up with a re-paint scheme that is exactly    that, although the design includes substantial red and orange stripes for    contrast. 



Has anyone taken a close look at the use (or rejection) of    black paint as it relates to excessive cabin heating on sunny days, gas tank    expansion, or navigation perception problems? Or other troubles, if    any?

Rich Cunningham

Model IV - 1200/912

SF Bay    Area





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173371#173371

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

dcsfoto

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 120

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Black paint

the covering manual warns about problems with tapes and use of dark green or black



David      



do not arcive

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: Black paint

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net] 

 It looks pretty visible to me, Michel, as viewed on page 45 of  

 Kitplanes, April 2008 issue. : )


	


.. now you got me really puzzled, Lynn. We can't get Kitplanes in the newsstands, here in Norway, so I have no way to find out myself. Yesterday, I received an email from Chuck Bodeen, an old friend from the X-Plane simulator, mentionning the new issue of Kitplanes and his article about safety by simulation, if I remember correctly. Is it what you refer to?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Do not archive

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: Black paint

Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. Enter for your chance to win. [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Black paint

Something like this Michel  

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C8918F.8C22C960[/img]  

   

In flight  

   

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C8918F.8C22C960[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

Do not Archive  

   

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Black paint

Michel, Thanks for the picture of the french plane with the white top. I am  rebuilding a mod 3. I had to recover the fusalage and plan on leaving the wings yellow as the whole plane was, and painting the fusalage black. The yellow cowel, wings, rudder, elevator and horiz stabilizer will be almost exactly as you describe a highly visable plane to be. I might play with painting the top half of the fusalage yellow. Might work? And, the answer to the energy solution is to get our government out of it. Let the market pay for and develope alternative fuels when the price of present fuels gets too high. Fossile fuels are the most efficient economical source of power presently. Our main source of food supply is corn and now the government is mandating that we burn our food for fuel. As usual a government solution to any problem is futile. Most Americans are economically ignorant, including most of the politians that pander to the rank and file buying their votes. I also saw your name in Kitplanes.

  

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 09:45:06 +0100

 From: michel(at)online.no

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Black paint

 

 > From: rcsfca [r66rc-matronics(at)yahoo.com]

 > Has anyone taken a close look at the use (or rejection) of black paint

 

 If I remember correctly, someone on this list once wrote that the US air force found out that black is the most visible colour for an aircraft in the sky. My Kitfox is dark blue and even in the Norwegian climate, it warms up the wing tanks in the summer and I can see petrol evaporating from the cover vents.

 One solution is then to paint the top fuselage and wing tanks white as the French Broussard aircraft were. (here is the link of a Norwegian Broussard with the original French paint work): http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0442553

 

 If, in addition you paint the nose, wing tips and rudder in bright orange, you'll get a quite visible aircraft in the air and on the ground. I am not too sure how sexy it will look but, at least, it will be functional.

 

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 

 

 <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">> _-========================.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

&g============
	


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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Black paint

Ray:  

   

Your last three or four posts have been completely blank... all the others are coming through.  

   

Noel  

Do not archive.  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAY Gignac

 Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:50 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Black paint  

  

  

   

       

  

Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. Enter for your chance to win.    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List 	
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Black paint

Rich,



My Series 7 has a bunch on black on it but I avoided (with the exception of wing tips & stab tips) painting any horizontal surfaces black.  I pirated the scheme of one of the best looking Aviat Husky's (in my opinion) I have seen.  I have not had it out in the sun yet but I don't think there will be any problems with my particular scheme.  Another problem with the dark colors is they show nearly every scratch.  Attached is a picture of the Husky...my Kitfox has nearly an identical scheme.

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Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Black paint

Yup, that's the one. Shows a picture of your plane landing amidst a  

flock of seagulls, and mentions landing at ENFB, and you informing  

him of the difficulty of landing there now that it has closed.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

do not archive

On Mar 29, 2008, at 8:11 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> It looks pretty visible to me, Michel, as viewed on page 45 of

> Kitplanes, April 2008 issue. : )



 ... now you got me really puzzled, Lynn. We can't get Kitplanes in  

 the newsstands, here in Norway, so I have no way to find out  

 myself. Yesterday, I received an email from Chuck Bodeen, an old  

 friend from the X-Plane simulator, mentionning the new issue of  

 Kitplanes and his article about safety by simulation, if I remember  

 correctly. Is it what you refer to?



 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 Do not archive

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">



 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>



 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rcsfca

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 10
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Black paint

Thanks, everyone, for chiming in on the black paint issue. 



I did a little digging across the web and found a graph (attached below) that portrays surface temperature as a function of paint colors. This comes from a website run by a Long-EZ owner-builder who said that "Uncle Burt (Rutan, the Long EZ designer) has essentially said 'you can have a fiberglass airplane in any color you want, as long as it's white.'" 

(No doubt a twist of phrase on Henry Ford's famous line that said, I believe, "You could have your Model T in any color as long as it was black.")



Note the reference to the dreaded fiberglass, which is probably the surface material used to compile the graph. For those of you who are interested in reading the whole page, the link is:



http://hallert.net/cozy/paintideas.htm



One interesting aspect of the graph is that the color red is not necessarily your friend either (my KFox is currently red) when compared to the lighter colors, although it does stand a clear 20 degrees lower than black.



-

-

Rich Cunningham

Model IV-1200 / 912

SF Bay Area

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: Black paint

Ever notice how the big composite planes all have white skins?  777 engine nacelles only come in white.  On the other hand ever try to polish a black car on a sunny day??  

   

Composite or cloth stick to white on top.  

   

Ok to archive.  

   

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C891F9.8E10A980[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: Black paint

Darin,

  

 Nice looking mean machine!  Those tires are awesome.  I do like the paint scheme.  Keep an eye on the tapes, especially on sunny days.

  

 Rick

  

  

  

 In a message dated 03/29/08 11:26:27 Eastern Daylight Time, gerns25(at)netscape.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     .aolmailheader          {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial} a.aolmailheader:link    {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:active  {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:hover   {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> 



Rich, 



My Series 7 has a bunch on black on it but I avoided (with the exception of wing tips & stab tips) painting any horizontal surfaces black.  I pirated the scheme of one of the best looking Aviat Husky's (in my opinion) I have seen.  I have not had it out in the sun yet but I don't think there will be any problems with my particular scheme.  Another problem with the dark colors is they show nearly every scratch.  Attached is a picture of the Husky...my Kitfox has nearly an identical scheme. 



-------- 

Darin Hawkes 

Series 7 (Painting) 

914 Turbo 

Kaysville, Utah 





Read this topic online here: 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173422#173422 





Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/husky4_139.bsp;              -Matt Dralle, List Admi========= 





	
  

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