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Tim Juhl
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: Elevator Limits |
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I read CH's letter with great interest. At least a little light has been shown on the issue of structural failure and a "fix" that may help reduce such tragedies.
The discussion of adding elevator stops brought something to mind that I thought I would share. I have instructed in Cessna 172's varying in vintage from 1956 to 1985. I owned a 1968 model for 23 years. I was surprised to find in the 1985 models that the max flap extension had been reduced to 30° and both aileron and elevator deflections had been limited. Indeed, I found that the older aircraft had greater ability to get in and out of short strips and deal with strong, gusty crosswinds. True, the later models were a little faster and for the most part I never noticed the control limits, but I can imagine situations where the extra travel might have been useful.
To make a long story short, CH is not the only one to use control travel limits to help protect pilots from themselves.
Tim Juhl
do not archive
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Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
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ihab.awad(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Elevator Limits |
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Folks,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net> wrote:
| Quote: | To make a long story short, CH is not the only one to use control travel limits to help protect pilots from themselves.
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I'm reminded of glider varios that beep "excitedly" when they find
lift. How hard could it be to add an accelerometer gadget with an
audio output that "squeaks in pain" when the G limits are being
exceeded, with progressively more urgent squeaks as the G levels rise?
After living with one of these for a while, I suspect a pilot's muscle
memory would develop a pretty good idea of how much to move the
controls at various speeds.
Thoughts?
Cheers and regards,
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
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frankroskind(at)HOTMAIL.C
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: Elevator Limits |
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The flap limits in later model Cessna 172's and 152's were installed because in a slip at the highest flap settings a pilot could cause a turbulent flow which would make the rudder ineffective or buffet. The POH covers this in 40 degree flap models, but I guess that there are dummies around who get into trouble forward slipping at full flaps. This is not the same case as what is going on with the Zodiacs. A closer anapolgy would be the Cessna 177 series, where the first year or two had more generous stabilator limits, but since the stabilator was more senstive than the elevaotors in 150's and 172's, Cessna found some pilots were overcontrolling in pitch during landing, whith bad results, so Cessna further limited the available range for the stabilator.
| Quote: | Subject: Elevator Limits
From: juhl(at)avci.net
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:28:34 -0700
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
I read CH's letter with great interest. At least a little light has been shown on the issue of structural failure and a "fix" that may help reduce such tragedies.
The discussion of adding elevator stops brought something to mind that I thought I would share. I have instructed in Cessna 172's varying in vintage from 1956 to 1985. I owned a 1968 model for 23 years. I was surprised to find in the 1985 models that the max flap extension had been reduced to 30° and both aileron and elevator deflections had been limited. Indeed, I found that the older aircraft had greater ability to get in and out of short strips and deal with strong, gusty crosswinds. True, the later models were a little faster and for the most part I never noticed the control limits, but I can imagine situations where the extra travel might have been useful.
To make a long story short, CH is not the only one to use control travel limits to help protect pilots from themselves.
Tim Juhl
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173304#173304
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Tim Juhl
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator Limits |
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Not to drag things out more than necessary but after reading CH's suggestion to reduce down elevator travel I started looking at other airplanes. My own Champ is set to up 25 & down 15 and that is plenty. A look at a few different models out at the local field all showed more up travel than down.
I guess I'll go ahead and install the elevator stop as he suggests.
Tim
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Almost done! It'll fly in spring! |
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