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johnd(at)data-tech.com
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Hi Scott,
Its not the factory demo plane. Its N357DT which was a czech built plane registered to Robert Dobson of Dahlonega, GA.
Thoughts and Prayers to the family of the pilot.
Here;s the FAA info:
| Quote: | ********************************************************************************
** Report created 4/8/2008 Record 1 **
********************************************************************************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 357DT Make/Model: CH60 Description: CH-600/601 Zodiac, Super Zodiac
Date: 04/07/2008 Time: 2100
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed
LOCATION
City: POLK CITY State: FL Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES INTO A WOODED AREA, THE ONE
PERSON ON BOARD WAS FATALLY INJURED, POLK CITY, FL
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: ORLANDO, FL (SO15) Entry date: 04/08/2008
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John Davis
601XL - Jab 3300
swater6 wrote: [quote] [b]
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jmaynard
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote:
Uh oh...here we go again:
"Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of
the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping
alongside the fuselage."
My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
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Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC |
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jim.lanier(at)charter.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off". I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings?
Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know?
Jay Maynard wrote: [quote] | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jay Maynard <jmaynard(at)conmicro.com> (jmaynard(at)conmicro.com)
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote:
Uh oh...here we go again:
"Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of
the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping
alongside the fuselage."
My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be.
|
[b]
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Kevin Bonds
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Two guys, from my chapter, also went down yesterday in an RV10. No
survivors. They were in route from Lebanon TN to Sun-n-fun. Both great
guys. I feel for the families in both instances. My heart goes out to
them. Having known both of them, has perhaps, caused me to reflect on
the topic of speculation after one of these crashes.
Kevin Bonds
Jay Maynard wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote:
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KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds |
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MHerder
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Would anyone happen to know whether or not the suggested/recommended/approved modification was made to the elevator control limits?
I just ordered of all things.... The wing center section and a bunch of other items less than two hours ago. ( I found out that I was in fact screwed and could not go any further if you happened to read my post "Am I screwed-Wing Center Section"
My thoughts and prayers also go out to our fellow aviator who was lost.
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_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying |
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pavel569
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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According to FAA this N number was made by Czech Aircraft Works , so I guess its the European ultralight version with standard empty weight of 595lbs, max gross weight 992lbs. This type has (POH) the stall speeds as stated on the website 32 resp. 26knots.
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_________________
Pavel
CA
Zodiac 601XL
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings, fuselage, canopy done ...
"do not archive" |
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lo2u
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 46
Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Just watched the video on the link.Beautiful plane flying nicely.Sad ending
for a plane that looked so well made.
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Oh no again,
What happened to the "independent engineer " we were supposed to pay in order to get the XL checked.......
My condolences to the family.
Alberto Martin
Iberplanes IGL
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Espaņa
[quote] ---
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Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Hi Sabrina,
I would guess the low stall speed might be indicated rather than
calibrated airspeed and also might be at a lighter than gross
weight. Those sorts of details might not be important to a single
builder, but would be factored in by a manufacturer of many
(certified?) planes.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 12:08 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | Is it possible to get a 26 knot stall speed out of the standard
wing/flap design without modification?
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jim.lanier(at)charter.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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This story seems to indicate that Dobson was the pilot. Very sad.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=af55d3aa-2e52-4854-8e04-67da234394c3
Jim
John Davis wrote: [quote] Hi Scott,
Its not the factory demo plane. Its N357DT which was a czech built plane registered to Robert Dobson of Dahlonega, GA.
Thoughts and Prayers to the family of the pilot.
Here;s the FAA info:
| Quote: | ********************************************************************************
** Report created 4/8/2008 Record 1 **
********************************************************************************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 357DT Make/Model: CH60 Description: CH-600/601 Zodiac, Super Zodiac
Date: 04/07/2008 Time: 2100
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed
LOCATION
City: POLK CITY State: FL Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES INTO A WOODED AREA, THE ONE
PERSON ON BOARD WAS FATALLY INJURED, POLK CITY, FL
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: ORLANDO, FL (SO15) Entry date: 04/08/2008
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John Davis
601XL - Jab 3300
swater6 wrote: | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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According to the owner's web site:
Max Load 1320lb
Empty Weight 735lb
http://www.nowakfamily.com/airplane.htm
This do not qualify as an European ultralight. As far as I know, the European and American version of the XL are structurally the same.
According to the web site, this particular plane appears to have been on sale for $74,000. I wonder if the plane was sold and the accident happened to the new owner. My condolences to the family.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
pavel569 <pm569(at)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "pavel569"
According to FAA this N number was made by Czech Aircraft Works , so I guess [quote][b]
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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The website states that as 26 knots indicated air speed. That is
entirely possible since most air speed indicators read quite a bit less
than calibrated air speed near the stall.
Sabrina wrote:
| Quote: |
Per http://www.nowakfamily.com/airplane.htm, N357DT had a 30 gallon capacity, a center stick and a 26 knot stall speed with flaps extended.
Is it possible to get a 26 knot stall speed out of the standard wing/flap design without modification?
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--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Eye witness reports are notoriously unreliable, especially in a case
like this where the witness may not be familiar with aircraft and is
probably not a trained observer. Lets just wait for the evidence to be
examined before we start speculating on what may have caused the crash.
Eye witnesses in Australia also reported wings falling off in the recent
crash there. It was later reported that the wings were intact and showed
no signs of in-flight breakup when the plane was finally recovered from
the sea floor.
James E. Lanier wrote:
| Quote: | I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off".
I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the
failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings?
Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't
know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know?
Jay Maynard wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
>> It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts.
>> http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER
>>
>
> Uh oh...here we go again:
>
> "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of
> the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping
> alongside the fuselage."
>
> My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be.
>
*
|
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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pavel569
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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| Quote: | | This do not qualify as an European ultralight. As far as I know, the European and American version of the XL are structurally the same. |
According to the CAW POH for Zodiac 601XL with Rotax 912 as it came on my CD (file "Zodiac XL POH Sample) together with ZAC manuals and other stuff has really 400lbs less gross weight and indicated stall airspeed 32-26knots, 37-33knots calibrated.
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_________________
Pavel
CA
Zodiac 601XL
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings, fuselage, canopy done ...
"do not archive" |
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ernieth(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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good point
On 4/8/08, Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Eye witness reports are notoriously unreliable, especially in a case
like this where the witness may not be familiar with aircraft and is
probably not a trained observer. Lets just wait for the evidence to be
examined before we start speculating on what may have caused the crash.
Eye witnesses in Australia also reported wings falling off in the recent
crash there. It was later reported that the wings were intact and showed
no signs of in-flight breakup when the plane was finally recovered from
the sea floor.
James E. Lanier wrote:
> I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off".
> I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the
> failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings?
> Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't
> know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know?
>
>
>
> Jay Maynard wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote:
>>
>>> It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts.
>>> http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER
>>>
>>
>> Uh oh...here we go again:
>>
>> "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of
>> the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was
flapping
>> alongside the fuselage."
>>
>> My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be.
>>
>
> *
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
|
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Gig Giacona
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Because of the proximity to SnF there's little doubt that better information will come from this accident than the previous ones. And if not better at least more.
As many have said let's not guess or listen to untrained eye-witnesses. The facts will come.
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_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR |
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jim.lanier(at)charter.net
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stshuck2(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Someone stalled it...
I'm still In..
Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote] Oh no again,
What happened to the "independent engineer " we were supposed to pay in order to get the XL checked.......
My condolences to the family.
Alberto Martin
Iberplanes IGL
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Espaņa
[quote] ---
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Terry Phillips
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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I'm still in.
IIRC, Andy Shontz initiated the thread asking listers for a yea or nay on the analysis. So, I'd hope that Andy would take the lead to make the analysis happen.
I'm not an aeronautical engineer, and I've never worked in the aerospace industries. Consequently, I don't know any aeronautical engineers.
However, a former colleague from Los Alamos is the now Dean of Engineering at Embry-Riddle, Prescott. If Andy is agreeable, I could send him an email to see if he could recommend someone qualified and available to do the analysis. Let me know if you're interested, Andy. He would need to know how much cash was on the table. It would be worth 3 or 4 hundred bucks to me.
Terry
At 09:47 PM 4/8/2008 +0200, you wrote:
| Quote: | Oh no again,
What happened to the "independent engineer " we were supposed to pay in order to get the XL checked.......
My condolences to the family.
Alberto Martin
Iberplanes IGL
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Espaņa |
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ [quote][b]
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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings. |
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afjones(at)BRAZORIAINET.C
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash |
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Wait ,Wait , Wait , When ,When , When .
---
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